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Thread: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    No, you're cherry-picking.
    Pot...meet kettle.

    And Mac.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    I was going with the "you didn't build that". But, you're stepping away from my point.
    If you want to re-arrange words, or focus on one part of the speech and ignore the rest, fine, that's up to you. But realize you are doing exactly what you claim the other side is doing. Some, like AdamT would just rearange his words to mean something else entirely...at least you aren't doing that.

    The fact is, Obama has never been in business, he doesn't have any idea what it takes to make one succeed. He has been in govt, and so approaches it from that perspective. Do I take his comments to mean that he wants to nationalize all American businesses? No, but I do take them to mean that he feels that govt has, or should have, a bigger role than it does. Both things I do not want my govt to have. I would rather someone have an understanding of management and success before they become CEO of my govt.
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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    What? Ahem. Is something more (than currently) owed by the successful person back to the collective by virtue of the successful person's success?
    Not sure what you're trying to get at here. Mere understanding would be a start.


    Abso*******lutely. I've read and listened to the entire speech and gained a firm grasp on his main point from the get-go. His main point is "vote for me, I'll take from the successful if you want me to" mixed together with "get ready successful, I may take from you because you're only successful in the first place because of us, who have come to take from you..."
    I'm not convinced you do. SOme here played a 56 second clip and started to protect what he thought his face expressed. I see a lot of that on these boards, and I think you're doing some of the same.

    As for me, yes, people helped me. As I have said, this takes nothing away form my effort or role in that success, but it would be a lie to say I did it all on my own. I explained this earlier.

    I agree. I immediately sought meaning underneath Obama's mickey-mouse obvious statements that private business owners did not build public bridges (derp!), and figured out a compelling ACTUAL reason he would speak this way to the owners of business.
    Notice your language. This suggests you went seeking with a predetermined POV. Kind of defeats the purpose of you looking.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Nyyyew but its you who are the uniformed one heeeeeere. Neener, neener, neener. We're not talking about roads in subdivisons or condos here. Get a clue.
    Why exclude any types of roads?
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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    If you want to re-arrange words, or focus on one part of the speech and ignore the rest, fine, that's up to you. But realize you are doing exactly what you claim the other side is doing. Some, like AdamT would just rearange his words to mean something else entirely...at least you aren't doing that.

    The fact is, Obama has never been in business, he doesn't have any idea what it takes to make one succeed. He has been in govt, and so approaches it from that perspective. Do I take his comments to mean that he wants to nationalize all American businesses? No, but I do take them to mean that he feels that govt has, or should have, a bigger role than it does. Both things I do not want my govt to have. I would rather someone have an understanding of management and success before they become CEO of my govt.
    Exactly! President Obama has had zero executive experience, his career until elected has been to concoct or concur with platitudes within a bubble of like-minded academia. He's not only uncomfortable with decision making, he becomes emotionally flustered when his rhetoric is challenged. This can be the only explanation for the flubbed comment he made, and the multitude of other statements like the "clingers" and "energy prices necessarily skyrocketing" comments. In a confrontational environment such as a political message board, not even Obama's most ardent sycophants would make such silly assertions.

    They just pretend Obama meant "something else" other than what he said.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    Cause I'm looking at the overall message of his speech?
    No, because you're saying, in essence, that Obama didn't say what he did--that actually, although he said them, that's not what he meant. If you've done any significant public speaking at all, then you know how easy it is to be carried away when you're in your groove. That's what happened, I think, to the President. He said what he said, and call it a "slip of the tongue" or argue that what he said is being taken out of context as you please, but he did, in fact, say those very words.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    Pot...meet kettle.
    Excuse me, no. I am simply repeating what the President said, and earlier in this thread, I provided a link to the video and the 0:47 point at which he said them. That's not "cherry-picking"; that's being literal.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I don't. Admit it because it happens to all of us: Obama was swept away by his own rhetoric and went too far. His words were, "If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. “Somebody else made that happen.”...
    those were NOT all of his words, and you're cherry-picking is dishonest and symptomatic of a movement that prefers dishonest quote-mining over honest criticism of his policies & beliefs.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Excuse me, no. I am simply repeating what the President said, and earlier in this thread, I provided a link to the video and the 0:47 point at which he said them. That's not "cherry-picking"; that's being literal.
    Excuse Me...Yes.


    "Cherry picking, suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position. It is a kind of fallacy of selective attention, the most common example of which is the confirmation bias. Cherry picking may be committed unintentionally.[1]"

    So...Taking a line, out of an entire speech to support your position, while dismissing the context it was placed in....would be called what exactly?

    Selective Quotation?
    Minimally interpretive word selection?
    Creative Sentence Manipulation?

    In my opinion...that is the perfect example of Cherry Picking.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    Excuse Me...Yes.


    "Cherry picking, suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position. It is a kind of fallacy of selective attention, the most common example of which is the confirmation bias. Cherry picking may be committed unintentionally.[1]"

    So...Taking a line, out of an entire speech to support your position, while dismissing the context it was placed in....would be called what exactly?

    Selective Quotation?
    Minimally interpretive word selection?
    Creative Sentence Manipulation?

    In my opinion...that is the perfect example of Cherry Picking.
    and its symptomatic of a movement being either horrible desperate..or horribly lazy.

    or both.

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