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Thread: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

  1. #51
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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    I hate both of the candidates. Obama is not socialist in any way he is somewhere between centre and centre-right. I'm also a social democrat not a socialist.
    Obama leans right? I think this just shows just how off center YOU are. LOL. The line that has Obama to the right of center is a slanted one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i fail to see anything in that quote that is factually incorrect or even mildly controversial.

    another fox news distortion.
    If you own a business, you didn't build that. This is factually incorrect in my case. Looking at it in context, it can AT LEAST be said that Obama feels that, if you own a business, the help you received from others played a more powerful role in YOUR success than your own efforts did. While (I guess) this could be considered subjective and not factually provable, there is NO doubt that it is controversial. More, even, than controversial- combined with Obamacare, IMO Obama is bleeding independent, moderate, libertarian, and other swing voters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Laborer's aren't the only other part of that community aspect though. Customers are. Other businesses you interact with...from advertising to cooking supplies to farmers etc...all play into it.

    Unless you're suggesting you raise your own food, smelt your own metal, create your own silverware, forge your own ceramic plates, built your own building, advertise singularly by your own word of mouth, completely taught yourself how to make the food, burn your own compost to power your resturant, etc.

    The Individual and their Environment is a symbiotic relationship. How the individual works and how that environment functions can be changed, arguments can be made with how much impact each may have at any given time, but the reality is that if you remove either component to that relationship the other does not survive in the manner that it is at the current point in time.
    I think the President's error is his belief that the philosophies and policies that he promotes and supports foster these "symbiotic relationships" which actually do increase opportunity and aid entrepreneurs (such as family, teachers, loans from banks, use of the internet infrastructure).

    Actually, his policies and beliefs promote "parasitic relationships" where an organism feeds off of a host without contributing back to the host.

  2. #52
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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And here's the flip side of Helix.

    There is context becuase it's one sentence in the midst of two entire paragrpahs talking about it. Reading it alone, it looks absolutely damning. Reading it as the whole, it is reasonable to suggest it's a bit of hyperbole in the context of the entire message that is basically suggesting that the individual doesn't accomplish things on his own, that anything people do is in part due to those around them and the system that exists.

    Now, that's DEFINITELY still able to be argued about. But it's not unreasonable to suggest that the entire two paragraphs surrounding his comment speaks more to the context and intent behind it then a singular line within the entire thing.
    It's unrealistic to package that statement with the whole concept of the rest of his message. It stands out that much.

    I tell my kids I don't know what you mean but I do understand what you say. In other words, express yourself better. Become more articulate.

    President Obama knew exactly what he was saying. His message is loud and clear.

    If that one sentence had been omitted from his speech this thread would have never existed. But no matter how much some would like, you can't discount his words, you can't sugar coat them, or dance around them. Why is this so hard to grasp?


    If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.
    President Barack Obama
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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i missed the part where you answered the question. the answer is yes, your business uses infrastructure that it didn't build on its own. that was the entire point of the full original quote.
    The infrastructure is built to facilitate transportation, mainly for the purpose of commercial interest, however these taxes are paid by the business already. Gasoline taxes during shipping, business taxes upon assets, income taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, and more that I cannot even think of right now. Employees pay a much smaller percentage, yet the logic somehow follows that the person who gave said employee a job in the first place should pay even more? This whole logic is flawed, employees do what they are paid to do, and the employers tend to pay the most in taxes. By the way, in lean times employees must be paid, employers don't necessarily get a check, so I am hard pressed to feel sorry for the people who were given employment and no other risk than preserving their jobs.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    This nothing more than a slap in the face to every entrepreneur in this country.

    The thing that Obama doesn't account for, is that businesses would have been built even without any help.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i missed the part where you answered the question. the answer is yes, your business uses infrastructure that it didn't build on its own. that was the entire point of the full original quote.
    My business uses infrastructure that wouldnt exist without the private sector.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    This nothing more than a slap in the face to every entrepreneur in this country.

    The thing that Obama doesn't account for, is that businesses would have been built even without any help.
    You build a business from an unfulfilled need or an idea, you expand by taking on new employees to handle the volume you personally cannot.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    You build a business from an unfulfilled need or an idea, you expand by taking on new employees to handle the volume you personally cannot.
    Those emplyees dont work for free.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Those emplyees dont work for free.
    Exactly my point. In the loosest interpretation they are partners in the effort, but employees aren't doing it from the goodness of their heart like a neighbor helping with yard work, employees work for their labor value and are entitled to every penny of it both legally and ethically. It's when politicians and people who've never actually had to fight in the business world make statements about the values of each member of a business that I have a problem, they don't have a clue and really just mess up the work environment.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    People who were able to come over here because other people and governments "discoverd" it, manned boats comin gover here, etc etc.

    Again, the real goes round and round, chicken and the egg, chicken and the egg.

    Now, I agree that there's definitely all kinds of debate and arguments to be had regarding tangental issues to it. I don't think the "individual" or "The community" is inherently a good argument either way because it is so subjective. However, to me that's a talk for another thread. The issue with this one from the start seemed to be outrage over Obama's statement....in that, while I understand it, I don't particularly see it because he's not really saying anything new and is just stating his sides typically subjective view of which of the two things in the cycle is most important. That's nothing scandalous to me...that's the norm.
    I am not calling all taxation scandal, but it must have reasonable limits. To assert, as Obama does, that "fairness" is ZERO taxation of the bottom 30%, modest taxation of the next 50% and very heavy taxation of the top 20% is not logical. It allows the bottom 80% to demand ever more from the top 20%.

    Democracy, or a democratic republic, must limit the abillity of the majority to demand unlimitted access to the proceeds of the minority. Otherwise we degenerate into a situation of "from each according to their ability (to pay taxes), to each according to their need (for free stuff)". The concept of income redistribution, for nothing more than its own sake, is not allowed by our constitution.

    I have no objection to taxation to allow the gov't to provide infrastructure, but to simply give "walking around" money to those that do not produce enough to even support themselves is not "investment" unless coupled with demands that they give something of value in return, like public service.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-16-12 at 04:37 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Much of this comes down to who took the risk in starting a new business?
    The most risk is the business owner.
    They risk their money, time, credit, and labor that their input will result in a profit.
    The Bank may have some risk, if they provided the capital.
    The Government has very little to lose, if the enterprise does not succeed.
    As far as the business environment, it has been the same for over a century, it just costs a lot more now.

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