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Thread: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You fail in realizing I never mentioned quality, but if a rational economic model existed and it does and did. Its up to opinion if it better or worse as it depends on what qualifies as better or worse.

    As for me, I find a rational system of mutual exchange between willing members superior on all fronts. You find government control in services you decide important better, but you my friend are a socialist, so that is to be expected.

    Your liberal lean is very funny though, my planned economy friend.
    Obama made a factual statement. You criticized him for it. Your claim is then linked with Rpmulus, who liked and responded to, adding to, not opposing. So, both of you have an obligation to support.

    As for what could be, I've made no claim. As for has been, it is not disputed that government has built roads and fire departments, and these things did contribute. These are factual and silly to dispute. And most often, the reasons behind any successful enterprize ususally includes a lot of help. Many usually contribute, and anyone saying they did ALL on their own are ususally wrong. This does not mean they did nothing, or did not contribute significantly. But most know and understand others played a role. Obama wasn't wrong, but your side's misreading of him is terribly misplaced.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You do not announce my failure, only your escape.
    I didn't announce your failure, you did when you resorted to an ad hominem attack. That told me you didn't have an argument left to defend. Oh come on, don't cry, you'll get over it.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Obama made a factual statement. You criticized him for it. Your claim is then linked with Rpmulus, who liked and responded to, adding to, not opposing. So, both of you have an obligation to support.

    As for what could be, I've made no claim. As for has been, it is not disputed that government has built roads and fire departments, and these things did contribute. These are factual and silly to dispute. And most often, the reasons behind any successful enterprize ususally includes a lot of help. Many usually contribute, and anyone saying they did ALL on their own are ususally wrong. This does not mean they did nothing, or did not contribute significantly. But most know and understand others played a role. Obama wasn't wrong, but your side's misreading of him is terribly misplaced.
    It's been demonstrated that Obama likely was referring to the "bridge" that the business owner who uses it did not personally fund on his own nor build on his own.

    But it's also been demonstrated that it wasn't "somebody else" who built the federally-funded whateverthe****. It WAS the business owner who paid for that in his own small way via taxes, and proportional to his success (income). So it was NOT a factual statement that someone "ELSE" built the federally-funded whateverthe****. Credit for the construction of federally-funded whateverthe****s go to taxpayers generally, of which the business owner is one.

    And all in all, we have to ask ourselves why in the hell Obama would single out successful business owners to remind them that they did not individually fund or build things that the government commissioned. Why in the hell call attention to that? It's entirely understood by business owners in general. They need not be reminded that their tax dollars chipped in for the government-commissioned whateverthe****.

    It should be clear to anyone with a quark's worth of intuition that Obama is preaching this BS to 1) rally the voting hordes who feel entitled to the property/investments/income of others, and/or 2) to warn the owners out there that the government is shaping up to shave them a little closer, so they'd better come to terms with the idea that they owe something additional back to "society."
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 07-21-12 at 03:31 AM.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    It's been demonstrated that Obama likely was referring to the "bridge" that the business owner who uses it did not personally fund on his own nor build on his own.

    But it's also been demonstrated that it wasn't "somebody else" who built the federally-funded whateverthe****. It WAS the business owner who paid for that in his own small way via taxes, and proportional to his success (income). So it was NOT a factual statement that someone "ELSE" built the federally-funded whateverthe****. Credit for the construction of federally-funded whateverthe****s go to taxpayers generally, of which the business owner is one.

    And all in all, we have to ask ourselves why in the hell Obama would single out successful business owners to remind them that they did not individually fund or build things that the government commissioned. Why in the hell call attention to that? It's entirely understood by business owners in general. They need not be reminded that their tax dollars chipped in for the government-commissioned whateverthe****.

    It should be clear to anyone with a quark's worth of intuition that Obama is preaching this BS to 1) rally the voting hordes who feel entitled to the property/investments/income of others, and/or 2) to warn the owners out there that the government is shaping up to shave them a little closer, so they'd better come to terms with the idea that they owe something additional back to "society."
    It was not the business owner alone. He could not have likely afforded one a lone. Or any of the other roads and help provided by the government. Most people pay taxes, federal and state. Fewer play payroll today, largely because the middle class is smaller, and more have fallen below the line.

    Obama's remarks don't stand in a vaccum. Both sides have made a lot of hay about "job providers" and slugs like "teachers" and "firefighters," living on the public dime. So, both sides get a bit hyperbolic at times. That said, Obama was largely correct, others did help. And that has not been effectively disputed.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It was not the business owner alone. He could not have likely afforded one a lone. Or any of the other roads and help provided by the government. Most people pay taxes, federal and state. Fewer play payroll today, largely because the middle class is smaller, and more have fallen below the line.

    Obama's remarks don't stand in a vaccum. Both sides have made a lot of hay about "job providers" and slugs like "teachers" and "firefighters," living on the public dime. So, both sides get a bit hyperbolic at times. That said, Obama was largely correct, others did help. And that has not been effectively disputed.
    I don't dispute that the business owner has been helped. Nor does the business owner himself. He has been helped. He has been helped DIRECTLY by the people he personally paid in exchange for their help, and he has been helped INDIRECTLY by the infrastructure that was funded indirectly (but proportionally) by his taxes. There is no residual debt the owner has to anyone.

    So there is a covert political undertone to his message. It's Mr. Rogers' level of obviousness that the business owner did not build the nation's roads and bridges. He knows that, we all know that. So why preach about it? I will tell you.

    Obama is doing two things: 1) Rallying the voting folks who are salivating at the thought of government redistributing a greater amount of that owners' assets/income to them, which he may or may not actually do, or 2) giving the business owner the heads-up that he is actually going to do that.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 07-21-12 at 03:52 AM.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I don't dispute that the business owner has been helped. Nor does the business owner himself. He has been helped. He has been helped DIRECTLY by the people he personally paid in exchange for their help, and he has been helped INDIRECTLY by the infrastructure that was funded indirectly (but proportionally) by his taxes. There is no residual debt the owner has to anyone.

    So there is a covert political undertone to his message. It's Mr. Rogers' level of obviousness that the business owner did not build the nation's roads and bridges. He knows that, we all know that. So why preach about it? I will tell you.

    Obama is doing two things: 1) Rallying the voting folks who are salivating at the thought of government redistributing a greater amount of that owners' assets/income to them, which he may or may not actually do, or 2) giving the business owner the heads-up that he is actually going to do that.
    No one says debt. Just a factual statement.

    Covert message? Shouldn't we listen to the entire speech, seek to grasp the main point? What too many do, is take out an excerp and try to make it something different from the whole. The message is more likely that we're worked to do things and this has benefitted business. This is not covert, or particularly controversial.

    It is as important to listen, seek meaning as it is to hold a belief system.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No one says debt. Just a factual statement.
    What? Ahem. Is something more (than currently) owed by the successful person back to the collective by virtue of the successful person's success?

    Covert message? Shouldn't we listen to the entire speech, seek to grasp the main point?
    Abso*******lutely. I've read and listened to the entire speech and gained a firm grasp on his main point from the get-go. His main point is "vote for me, I'll take from the successful if you want me to" mixed together with "get ready successful, I may take from you because you're only successful in the first place because of us, who have come to take from you..."

    What too many do, is take out an excerp and try to make it something different from the whole. The message is more likely that we're worked to do things and this has benefitted business. This is not covert, or particularly controversial.

    It is as important to listen, seek meaning as it is to hold a belief system.
    I agree. I immediately sought meaning underneath Obama's mickey-mouse obvious statements that private business owners did not build public bridges (derp!), and figured out a compelling ACTUAL reason he would speak this way to the owners of business.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 07-21-12 at 05:49 AM.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    So what? The point is who built and paid for the roads and railroads so businesses could thrive? hint: NOT BUSINESSES.
    Businesses build the roads, quite literally, and the citizens pay for them. Gov is just a middle man.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Businesses build the roads, quite literally, and the citizens pay for them. Gov is just a middle man.
    Okay, except the government makes the decisions, does the planning, buys the land grants and decides which business will do the building. In short, without government, business isn't going to build the road.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Okay, except the government makes the decisions, does the planning, buys the land grants and decides which business will do the building. In short, without government, business isn't going to build the road.
    Businesses build roads all the time. I live on one such road.
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