Page 5 of 149 FirstFirst ... 345671555105 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 1482

Thread: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

  1. #41
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    does your business use infrastructure that it didn't build by itself?
    Why would the infrastructure exist if not to facilitate business? If businesses decided to stop producing in a bad market, do you think those roads would be maintained frequently?
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  2. #42
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:08 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,544

    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Chicken and egg, chicken and egg, chicken and egg.

    Almost every individual effort is shaped in part by environmental conditions which were likely shaped in part due to individual efforts which....on and on.

    As I said to a few friends on email...the funny thing is…he’s right, but he’s wrong as well. The reality is, often, success is a mixture of environment/community and the individual. Sometimes environment almost alone can spur it…sometimes the individual almost on their own can do it, but usually it’s a mix. The difference is…and it’s so interesting reading it because it’s often a great dichotomy between the two parties…is which of those two ingredients do you choose to highlight, promote, and give adulation to and which do you downplay or degrade or write off.

    Obama chooses to highlight and promote the community while devaluing and downplaying the individual. Traditionally, Republicans hype up the individual while downplaying the community. What becomes interesting is which of the two arguments will win over the fickle American people this time around.
    Good points. The people created the gov't not the gov't created the people. Our constitution establishes limitted federal power, and it does NOT include income redistribution (charity). Which party wishes to make things rights simply because they are needs or wants?

    What is MOSTLY failed to be addressed ABOVE BOARD, by Obama and the left, is what those on the sidelines are entitled to. What does one that dropped out of school, has no job yet produces offspring offer to society? The left will say that offspring alone is NOW worth supporting the moron that is their parent, that was their great "contribution", a welfare baby.

    What has to be decided is HOW MUCH of the "proceeds" of a business is due those that invested their own time, effort and funds into it and how much is due to "society" for allowing them the privilege to establish that business and the infrastructure to help support us all. Obama seems to believe that asking the top 10% to pay half of the taxes is "fair" and the rest may still vote themselves all manor of new rights, goods and services based on need (want?) alone out of that taxation. It is the growing crowd in the bleachers, that used to be charged a modest admission fee, that are now saying that they should be paid to simply watch. It is far too easy to be very generous with other people's money.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-16-12 at 03:09 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #43
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,937

    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I get all of that, here's the catch: If no businesses exist requiring the services of secondary business then their labor has no demand, yet if the secondary business didn't exist I could probably design my own dining room/bar layout, if I went gourmet I could get away with less employees by serving and cashiering while the sauces cook, etc. I guess I'm getting at this, while laborers are important they don't exist without the investment class(bosses, money, ideas).
    Laborer's aren't the only other part of that community aspect though. Customers are. Other businesses you interact with...from advertising to cooking supplies to farmers etc...all play into it.

    Unless you're suggesting you raise your own food, smelt your own metal, create your own silverware, forge your own ceramic plates, built your own building, advertise singularly by your own word of mouth, completely taught yourself how to make the food, burn your own compost to power your resturant, etc.

    The Individual and their Environment is a symbiotic relationship. How the individual works and how that environment functions can be changed, arguments can be made with how much impact each may have at any given time, but the reality is that if you remove either component to that relationship the other does not survive in the manner that it is at the current point in time.

  4. #44
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Laborer's aren't the only other part of that community aspect though. Customers are. Other businesses you interact with...from advertising to cooking supplies to farmers etc...all play into it.

    Unless you're suggesting you raise your own food, smelt your own metal, create your own silverware, forge your own ceramic plates, built your own building, advertise singularly by your own word of mouth, completely taught yourself how to make the food, burn your own compost to power your resturant, etc.

    The Individual and their Environment is a symbiotic relationship. How the individual works and how that environment functions can be changed, arguments can be made with how much impact each may have at any given time, but the reality is that if you remove either component to that relationship the other does not survive in the manner that it is at the current point in time.
    And you are correct, but this does not allow for the logic that a business owner didn't build his business or that society had a greater role in it than trading for value which is my overall point. If following the logic of a communal effort then it becomes logical that the creators and investors of a business don't own the idea, this is dangerous and frankly dishonest and is always used as an excuse to take more money and exert more authority.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  5. #45
    Global Moderator
    Moderator
    Helix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    37,064

    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Why would the infrastructure exist if not to facilitate business? If businesses decided to stop producing in a bad market, do you think those roads would be maintained frequently?
    i missed the part where you answered the question. the answer is yes, your business uses infrastructure that it didn't build on its own. that was the entire point of the full original quote.

  6. #46
    Sage
    Mach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    11,427

    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Business owners, you are demons.
    Now, faithful, let's take our money back from those demons. It's righteous work we're doing.

    What a crock of ****.

    I love the self-fulfilling aspect of this as well. Hey business owners, we took money from business owners BEFORE you, and squandered those taxes on inefficient government projects and programs, that they had no choice in. Now that you use those programs and such, YOU OWE US BIG, and we are deciding what you owe us!
    What a joke.

    Of all the things that make me want to be an evil bastard, liberal rhetoric is #1.

  7. #47
    Sage
    Arbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    07-12-16 @ 01:32 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,395
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You don't see anything at least POSSIBLE to be controversial about "If you've got a business - you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen".

    That's no different than saying "If you've got a business you've got it becaues of yourself. No one else helped you make that".

    It completely devalues, and in that particular instance completely removes, any individual effort or activity placing ALL the responsability and praise onto the community. That's ridiculous to suggest.

    If you can't honestly see how there is something even mildly controversial then to be quite frank you're not looking at it very objectively.
    Not to mention it also brings into question, if it's just a matter of outside influences, why aren't they working to make those influences so that everyone has their own business. What a great way to get the jobless back into jobs. It doesn't require any effort on their part.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  8. #48
    Sage
    Mach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    11,427

    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Given that most of us are in the U.S. receiving all those grand benefits of the U.S. government and "other people", why is there still so much disparity?
    Oh yes, some people still simply outperform others, in the marketplace. It's relative. I grew up in Louisiana, I don't think they were trying to help me there, things were falling apart all around me, it was depressing. I got the **** out. Texas on the other hand, imagine that...rated #1 for business? Craziness.

  9. #49
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,937

    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Good points. The people created the gov't not the gov't created the people.
    People who were able to come over here because other people and governments "discoverd" it, manned boats comin gover here, etc etc.

    Again, the real goes round and round, chicken and the egg, chicken and the egg.

    Now, I agree that there's definitely all kinds of debate and arguments to be had regarding tangental issues to it. I don't think the "individual" or "The community" is inherently a good argument either way because it is so subjective. However, to me that's a talk for another thread. The issue with this one from the start seemed to be outrage over Obama's statement....in that, while I understand it, I don't particularly see it because he's not really saying anything new and is just stating his sides typically subjective view of which of the two things in the cycle is most important. That's nothing scandalous to me...that's the norm.

  10. #50
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,937

    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    And you are correct, but this does not allow for the logic that a business owner didn't build his business or that society had a greater role in it than trading for value which is my overall point.
    Oh I agree. However, again, I think Obama's line is only saying that the person didn't build their business in any way, shape, or form if you take it entirely seperate from the two paragraphs surrounding it. When you take it as the whole, it instead goes to your second part...that society had a greater role in it.

    Now that...that can be argued, but utlimately it's a subjective argument. People in this thread have been just as guilty as Obama, just on the other side, in suggesting that the individual has the greater role as if it's fact. It's not something that's really provable or definitive either way, which is why you routinely have what you had with Obama and with people in this thread....the promotion of one of the two, the devaluing of the other of the two, based on that individuals world view and internal belief of what is or isn't more important or impactful.

Page 5 of 149 FirstFirst ... 345671555105 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •