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Thread: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I agree with Obama. It is government's job to help balance the economy and thus help create the conditions necessary for jobs to be created and for hard work to pay off.
    The necessary conditions are driven by individuals' preferences and means. This happens naturally. Individuals don't receive their preferences and means from the government. People demand things by virtue of their needs and likes, not by virtue of what government rations out to them. Government's responsibility in regulating commerce (including finance) is to prosecute criminal behavior and, (if we must have a Federal Reserve), place a check on market anomalies like asset bubbles. Calling toxic assets AAA investments is a massive public deception. Floods of mortgage contracts not made in good faith of both parties are a a legal problem, and of widespread enough also an economic problem. Maybe government had an important role in addressing these types of things, but nowhere in all of that do we need government to find us a job or keep spending cash in our pockets.

    And in the event that the economy should go off the rails, it is the job of government to deploy temprary stimulus to reduce the impact on vulnerable people and to quicken the recovery.
    Two red flags about stimulus: 1) when it becomes necessary on an annual or basically constant basis, there's a problem in the design, and 2) whenever the time comes that the reason for the economy being off the rails in the first place is government debt, stimulus has zero positive impact and the whole game is over.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    The necessary conditions are driven by individuals' preferences and means. This happens naturally. Individuals don't receive their preferences and means from the government. People demand things by virtue of their needs and likes, not by virtue of what government rations out to them. Government's responsibility in regulating commerce (including finance) is to prosecute criminal behavior and, (if we must have a Federal Reserve), place a check on market anomalies like asset bubbles. Calling toxic assets AAA investments is a massive public deception. Floods of mortgage contracts not made in good faith of both parties are a a legal problem, and of widespread enough also an economic problem. Maybe government had an important role in addressing these types of things, but nowhere in all of that do we need government to find us a job or keep spending cash in our pockets.
    Millions of people unemployed and no jobs available and since it's the government job to provide for the security and well being of citizens, then that means job creation, doesn't it?

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Millions of people unemployed and no jobs available and since it's the government job to provide for the security and well being of citizens, then that means job creation, doesn't it?
    The opnly way the government can really do that is hire people.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The openly way the government can really do that is hire people.
    Or like others have said, government can help provide the conditions that make easier for private industry to hire more people or start new businesses by providing low interest loans and network support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Millions of people unemployed and no jobs available and since it's the government job to provide for the security and well being of citizens, then that means job creation, doesn't it?
    No. Government doesn't "create jobs" beyond the work it requires done completing specific projects within their powers to provide. It does not create jobs for the purpose of making unemployed people employed. If it tries to anyway, there are two options and both are worse for the economy than doing nothing: 1) employ them directly, which means finding something for them to do that was not previously determined a priority, as well as taking money out of the private sector in order to provide the income. This is a net inefficiency and harms economic activity more than it helps. 2) Force the terms of employment arrangement on private parties, and I shouldn't even need to explain why that fails, given that we want our private economic activity to be more competitive globally, not less.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 07-19-12 at 08:12 PM.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    What more, attitude wise, could be expected from someone who strives to create New Americ land of the welfare state.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I agree with Obama. It is government's job to help balance the economy and thus help create the conditions necessary for jobs to be created and for hard work to pay off. And in the event that the economy should go off the rails, it is the job of government to deploy temprary stimulus to reduce the impact on vulnerable people and to quicken the recovery.
    you agree with Obama

    color me shocked



    Right now Obama government is pretty well buggering the economy up.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Or like others have said, government can help provide the conditions that make easier for private industry to hire more people or start new businesses by providing low interest loans and network support.
    right now it is doing the opposite

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    No. Government doesn't "create jobs" beyond the work it requires done completing specific projects within their powers to provide. It does not create jobs for the purpose of making unemployed people employed. If it tries to anyway, there are two options and both are worse for the economy than doing nothing: 1) employ them directly, which means finding something for them to do that was not previously determined a priority, as well as taking money out of the private sector in order to provide the income. This is a net inefficiency and harms economic activity more than it helps. 2) Force the terms of employment arrangement on private parties, and I shouldn't even need to explain why that fails, given that we want our private economic activity to be more competitive globally, not less.
    I think it's already been proven that government does and can create jobs so that unemployed people can be employed and that in it self can be a priority need and it does indeed stimulate economic growth. It wouldn't serve the government or the private sector to let citizens starve or riot for lack of employment because the private sector are citizens and without them there is no economy or government.

    1. By employing people directly does not neccessarily take money out of the private sector but rather puts it back in because government employees spend their paychecks in the private sector and many economies are built around government employees spending their money in the private sector. The money you think is taken out of the private sector are taxes the private sector was likely obligated to pay with or without government job creation. So you can argue that you don't like how taxes are spent but you can't argue that the private sector wouldn't have had to pay taxes, regardless of government employment.

    2. Many nations around the world nationalize or subsidize their industries and that is what the private sector must compete against in a global economy. Private businesses can not compete effectively against a nation that subsidizes a competing industry unless their government does the same. So that is exactly what our government does, subsidizes the private sector.

    An interesting case of subsidizing gone awry is US cotton. Our country subsidizes our private cotton growers and in doing so violates the very treaty NAFTA that it insisted other countries sign. So when Brazil's unsubsidized cotton growers complained to the WTO about the US unfair trade practice, the US skirted the treaty by subsidizing Brazil's cotton growers as well. The problem here is our private cotton growers didn't want to give up their subsidies because they enjoy their economic advantage and don't like the competition. So there you have it, corporate welfare for the so called free market and it's costing tax payers billions. So before complaining about government jobs that actually employ real people, why not hold the free market to account and demand the removal of their corporate welfare subsidies?
    Last edited by Moot; 07-19-12 at 10:45 PM.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    right now it is doing the opposite
    Thanks to conservatives hoping the economy will tank.

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