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Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

Interesting way to look at it. I always felt it was up to the company to decide what they thought was reasonable pay for a position and it was up to the person to decide if they thought that was their true value. If the two don't match there are choices to be made by both.

To a point that is true. But the advantage shifts. It favors the employee when there are other places competiting. And it favors the business when there isn't. Largely it is good when one has too much of an advantage. But what I tried to point out is that the only way to bring them back is to seriously change how we live. We will have to resemble the countries they are out sourcing to. A friend of mind, a very conservative person, calls it the Mexicanaizing of America. Unless the pednulum shifts back toward the worker, we will see the standard of living shrink even more. I merely argue this isn't good for us as a country. I wish I had a magic solution to the problem. But we should not pretend that something like taxes or any simple solution will reverse the trend.
 
Well, there is that problem. But just because we wish it were otherwise, it doesn't mean that the labor market is where we think it should be. The days of high-wage manufacturing jobs appear to be over.



And how do we do that?

I have no idea. Help spread unions over there?
 
I have no idea. Help spread unions over there?

Why on Earth would they allow that?

Look, the labor market is going to be where it is until they demand higher wages themselves. There isn't anything we can do about it.
 
Why on Earth would they allow that?

Look, the labor market is going to be where it is until they demand higher wages themselves. There isn't anything we can do about it.

Nothing is allowed. It is fought for.
 
Look, the labor market is going to be where it is until they demand higher wages themselves. There isn't anything we can do about it.

Maybe not, I'm really not arguing there is. Read what I wrote carefully. Here I merely tried to answer you.
 
Wages are already rising rapidly over there. But there is a LONG way to go before catch up.
 
You wrote:

I said it would be a better bet. Not that we could or should do it. There are words before it. I was setting up a comparison, to show that what was before it was too viable. I think it is important to read all the words together.
 
I said it would be a better bet. Not that we could or should do it. There are words before it. I was setting up a comparison, to show that what was before it was too viable. I think it is important to read all the words together.

Yes, a "better bet," implying there's something we could do to that effect. Otherwise, it's not a better bet. It's a waste of time.
 
Yes, a "better bet," implying there's something we could do to that effect. Otherwise, it's not a better bet. It's a waste of time.

No, implying that the idea it was better than wasn't a very effective idea. Again, all words should be read together.
 
No, implying that the idea it was better than wasn't a very effective idea. Again, all words should be read together.

OK, you're backpedaling, but I'm not going to worry about it. Carry on.
 
OK, you're backpedaling, but I'm not going to worry about it. Carry on.

Nope. I'm asking you to read for meaning. It helps, trust me. :coffeepap
 
To a point that is true. But the advantage shifts. It favors the employee when there are other places competiting. And it favors the business when there isn't. Largely it is good when one has too much of an advantage. But what I tried to point out is that the only way to bring them back is to seriously change how we live. We will have to resemble the countries they are out sourcing to. A friend of mind, a very conservative person, calls it the Mexicanaizing of America. Unless the pednulum shifts back toward the worker, we will see the standard of living shrink even more. I merely argue this isn't good for us as a country. I wish I had a magic solution to the problem. But we should not pretend that something like taxes or any simple solution will reverse the trend.

True there is no simple solution to the problem. As a nation we have embraced the lower prices consumers are rewarded through this globalization. The flip side is that the workers that are vulnerable to this have a ton of competition and competition that is willing to work for much less. This issue is no longer confined to factory workers. Now you can have people in India or elsewhere read x-rays and send the results to a doctor back in the states. I have a neighbor who works for IBM in a growing segment of their business. His group has pretty much said they will no longer high or replace people here in the US, to expensive.

We do live in a nation of relative high productivity which should help maintain wages in some industries, but not all.
 
True there is no simple solution to the problem. As a nation we have embraced the lower prices consumers are rewarded through this globalization. The flip side is that the workers that are vulnerable to this have a ton of competition and competition that is willing to work for much less. This issue is no longer confined to factory workers. Now you can have people in India or elsewhere read x-rays and send the results to a doctor back in the states. I have a neighbor who works for IBM in a growing segment of their business. His group has pretty much said they will no longer high or replace people here in the US, to expensive.

We do live in a nation of relative high productivity which should help maintain wages in some industries, but not all.

I think the gap will grow because of this. I don't think that is a good thing.
 
To the best of my knowledge when you say that a political party took a stated position of blocking every one of said leaders actions, that is simply untrue. I do remember the lead senator of the republican party saying something stupid like that, not the entire party including the leader of the house of representatives.
No, when I say a political party took that stated position, that's exactly what I meant ...

Republican Senators Pledge To Block All Legislation Until Tax Cuts Are Extended
 
Not sure if you know this but no one is turned away from health care if they need it. That is Obama's key line to sell his mandate.

You need to do a better job of remembering the talking points before writing nonsense on this site.
It's not a talking point. What you are speaking of is emergency room care. As of 1986 (if I recall correctly), legislation was passed which denies emergency rooms from turning away patients just because they can't afford to pay.

That is not healthcare.

Try getting chemotherapy to help combat cancer in an emergency room.

Try getting an emergency room to provide you with monthly prescriptions for whatever ailment it is which requires them.

Furthermore, tax payers currently flip the bill for folks who rely on emergency room care for their quasi-healthcare but then refuse to pay for it. Now those taxes will be collected via Obama's healthcare plan.
 
More ignorance..

"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" does not imply that healthcare is guaranteed, nor paid for by the taxpayer for others who can't afford it. Life in that statement is addressing the right to live without the fear of someone violating your rights. Military acts to protects this purpose in that quote while healthcare does not.
Healthcare absolutely does preserve it. Or more accurately, its goal is to preserve it.

And I didn't say it guarantees it. That's your switching words because you can't deal with what I actually said. I said was that healthcare is a basic human right and its main purpose is to preserve life. Nothing in life is guaranteed.

G'head, insert invective here -->


:roll::roll::roll:
 
Healthcare absolutely does preserve it. Or more accurately, its goal is to preserve it.

More and more failure and this time at reading. Lets try this again and maybe this time you can read it before you comment. Life in that statement is addressing it in such a way to protect you from outside aggression from others towards your life. This what murder laws are shaped around and what the military serves to protect. Healthcare does not fall under this umbrella. Take a a moment and read every word I wrote here and then allow yourself a moment to ponder over it. After all that is done do what you will.

And I'm sorry but healthcare coverage would be guaranteed, so yes, you did imply access to the service. Want to try again there too?
 
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I think the gap will grow because of this. I don't think that is a good thing.

WILL narrow?


No.

IS narrowed. We are now, already, a service nation. Retail workers outnumber any other worker, and most other workers, combined. They are the only thing that can't be outsourced. SOMEONE has to stock the shelves of all the made in China/Taiwan products, and SOMEONE has to show their face at a store when a customer has a question/comment/complaint. And those people already outnumber any other sector. We outnumber autoworkers, factory workers, coal minors, public employees, etc.

Solution? Screw me if I know. I don't think there is one, except to wait it out, which will take our lifetimes, and most of our childrens lifetimes...and then, China, or any other job sourcing nation, will have a work force just as spoiled as us, wanting, expecting, demanding just as much money for service rendered as we do...at which point, the jobs will come back.

In the meantime, it's retail jobs it is, for most of you/us. Which makes me happy, because once of few more of you have DONE these jobs, maybe you'll be a bit more polite to the others doing these jobs that you encounter while you're shopping. People always decry customer service and retail jobs as not really coveted, not really great careers, etc. And you know why? Because of the A-holes we have to deal with on a daily basis....which is to say, customers. If it weren't for people, customer service fields would be perfectly good jobs, lol. Decent benefits, full time schedule, competitive pay, 401ks with company match, etc.
 
As to health care...the Affordable Health Care Act, at no point, in any way, addresses health care. It addresses health insurance.

Why do we need health insurance in the first place, folks?
 
More and more failure and this time at reading. Lets try this again and maybe this time you can read it before you comment. Life in that statement is addressing it in such a way to protect you from outside aggression from others towards your life. This what murder laws are shaped around and what the military serves to protect. Healthcare does not fall under this umbrella. Take a a moment and read every word I wrote here and then allow yourself a moment to ponder over it. After all that is done do what you will.

And I'm sorry but healthcare coverage would be guaranteed, so yes, you did imply access to the service. Want to try again there too?

It's all under the same umbrella of preserving life.
 
WILL narrow?


No.

IS narrowed. We are now, already, a service nation. Retail workers outnumber any other worker, and most other workers, combined. They are the only thing that can't be outsourced. SOMEONE has to stock the shelves of all the made in China/Taiwan products, and SOMEONE has to show their face at a store when a customer has a question/comment/complaint. And those people already outnumber any other sector. We outnumber autoworkers, factory workers, coal minors, public employees, etc.

Solution? Screw me if I know. I don't think there is one, except to wait it out, which will take our lifetimes, and most of our childrens lifetimes...and then, China, or any other job sourcing nation, will have a work force just as spoiled as us, wanting, expecting, demanding just as much money for service rendered as we do...at which point, the jobs will come back.

In the meantime, it's retail jobs it is, for most of you/us. Which makes me happy, because once of few more of you have DONE these jobs, maybe you'll be a bit more polite to the others doing these jobs that you encounter while you're shopping. People always decry customer service and retail jobs as not really coveted, not really great careers, etc. And you know why? Because of the A-holes we have to deal with on a daily basis....which is to say, customers. If it weren't for people, customer service fields would be perfectly good jobs, lol. Decent benefits, full time schedule, competitive pay, 401ks with company match, etc.

I'm not sure who you think hasn't done these jobs. You'd be hard pressed to find a field I haven't worked in my 53 years.

But I said grow, the gap will grow (between rich and poor with a shrinking middle class). I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or disputing me. :shrug:
 
I love how a topic as "Obama to business owners" gets derailed into the "obama care talk". That being said. I do lean to the left of most issues. Now thats out of the way, I have read about 60 posts bashing Obama care and how unfair it is to "tax" people. Well from what I can see, and I have read this "bill" and I do have an understanding of the arguments for and against it, I say this. This "Obama care" act seems ALOT like the Regan plan back in the 80's and also its sure does remind me of the Romney play:) I hear all the right wingers(I am married to one) talk about"we dont want to pay for food stamps, welfare.....) now it seems to me then right wing people must by that logic LOVE it when people go to emergency rooms and get free health care and then "we" have to pay for it:) sarcasim there..... not to mention, we are the ONLY developed country to NOT see healthcare a human rite but as a only if you can afford it. so by those right winger standards we should be happy with having a healthcare standard that equals Nigeria:)SO here it is, can one of you people whimpering about the "tax" please tell me, how this "mandate" is different from the Regan plan, and how its different from the Romney plan, then also tell me, how, HOW do you feel about paying for other peoples health care? Also tell me how you feel about the USA spending the most per person on healthcare and WE ARE 37th ON THE WHO and other lists, and yes I will respond to what ever you say.......
 
I think the gap will grow because of this. I don't think that is a good thing.

I also do not think it is a good thing. That being said, if America would back up that sentiment with their pocketbooks more things would be built here.
 
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