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Thread: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

  1. #331
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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    This statement, as it stands alone here, is a hoot!!!

    And to answer it, "Yes, the entire right side of the aisle has understood this for decades."
    Then why do so many of them sing a solo of Frank Sinatra's I DID IT MY WAY and actually believe they accomplished everything all by themsleves?

    Who do so many on the right refuse to admit that society and its desginated government plays a huge role in making this a great country and contributing to the success of the American people?
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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Some different people in different threads and it's both the same general topic so my further thoughts...

    After listening to Romney's speech yesterday, I must say I think the two speeches highlight what I said very early on. The notion of the Community and the Individual is a symbiotic relationship and different views by different people, typically along ideological lines, place greater importance on one side while downplaying the other side. What this does is present to very different and distinct views and thought processes to the American People and allows us to see, at least in this particular snap shot of history, which way they gravitate to more. It is not shocking that many liberals were very happy (or at worst acknowledged a poor choice of phrasing but enjoyed the over all message) with Obama's speech...it was well delivered and eloquated the "COMMUNITY individual" mindset well. On the flip side, it's not shocking that Conservatives...even those that have been luke warm on Romney...have been rather happy with his recent speech in response that does a good job promoting the notiong of "INDIVIDUAL community". In both instances, the person does not directly and clearly actually ridicule the notion opposite that which they decide to focus on...nor does either outright deny that the other factor (community in Romney case/Individual in Obmaa's case) does not exist. However, the difference is on which should be focused, which should be lauded, which should be in the forefront, and which is felt to be more important or of value.

    What will be interesting is, if this theme continues, what those individuals who hover around the middle or who are rather apolitical gravitate to more.

    Heres a link to Mitt's speech: LINK

    And here's a portion:

    You know, thank you, you know something happened, something happened on Friday. President Obama exposed what he really thinks about free people and the American vision, and government, what he really thinks about America itself. He probably wants to understand why hispolicies failed. If you want to understand why his policies have failed, why what he has done has not created jobs, or rising incomes in America, you can look at what he said. And what he said was this, I quote, and he was speaking about businesses like this one, small businesses, big businesses, mid-sized businesses, mining businesses, manufacturing service businesses of all kinds. He said this: “If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that, somebody else made that happen.” That somebody else is government in his view. He goes on to describe the people who deserve the credit for building this business. And, of course, he describes people who we care very deeply about, who make a difference in our lives, our schoolteachers, fire fighters, people who build roads. We need those things, we value schoolteachers, fire fighters, people who build roads, you really couldn’t have a business if you didn’t have those things. But, you know, we pay for those things. The taxpayers pay for government. It’s not like government just provides those to all of us and we say oh thank you government for doing those things. In fact we pay for them and we benefit from them and we appreciate the work that they do and the sacrifices that are done by people who work in government. But they did not build this business.

    The idea to say that Steve Jobs didn’t build Apple, that Henry Ford didn’t build Ford Motor, that Papa John didn’t build Papa John Pizza, that Ray Kroc didn’t build McDonald’s, that Bill Gates didn’t build Microsoft, you go on the list, that Joe and his colleagues didn’t build this enterprise, to say something like that is not just foolishness, it is insulting to every entrepreneur, every innovator in America and it’s wrong. [Applause] And by the way, the President’s logic doesn’t just extend to the entrepreneurs that start a barber shop or a taxi operation or an oil field service business like this and a gas service business like this, it also extends to everybody in America that wants to lift themself up a little further, that goes back to school to get a degree and see if they can get a little better job, to somebody who wants to get some new skills and get a little higher income, to somebody who have, may have dropped out that decides to get back in school and go for it. People who reach to try and lift themself up. The President would say, well you didn’t do that. You couldn’t have gotten to school without the roads that government built for you. You couldn’t have gone to school without teachers. So you didn’t, you are not responsible for that success. President Obama attacks success and therefore under President Obama we have less success and I will change that. [Applause]I’ve got to be honest, I don’t think anyone could have said what he said who had actually started a business or been in a business. And my own view is that what the President said was both startling and revealing. I find it extraordinary that a philosophy of that nature would be spoken by a President of the United States. It goes to something that I have spoken about from the beginning of the campaign. That this election is, to a great degree, about the soul ofAmerica. Do we believe in an America that is great because of government or do we believe in an America that is great because of free people allowed to pursue their dreams and build our future?
    Now much like Obama's entire speech, there's typical political pandering and rhetoric, there's spin, etc. However, also like Obama's speech, there's an inherent message in there that's aimed at both Romney's supporters and those HONESTLY floating around in the middle there. I don't expect most liberals to like Romney's speech or give him any credit for it (To be frank, I'm not a huge fan but it's arguably the best presentation I've ever seen from him in terms of attitude, charisma, content, etc) anymore than I expected most conservatives to have a positive review or give credit to Obama's speech. But I place it here becuase I think that the two different speeches may actually be one of the first times in this entire election season where I've seen both sides putting forward their own positive message for their views regarding the country that are each diametrically different and present two clear alternatives...and I truly hope that we see more of this kind of back and forth then we see of "GIVE US MORE TAX RETURNS" or "YOU'RE A SOCIALIST".

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Furiounova View Post
    I have a small residential construction biz and I cannot even begin to list the different materials I need but here is some off the top of my head:

    nails
    sheetrock
    lumber in various forms
    steel screws
    wood screws
    concrete screws
    construction paper
    three different kinds of tape
    cleaning supplies
    primer for various surfaces
    vinyl siding
    plywood
    roof shingles
    paints and stains for numerous applications
    invoices and other typical office supplies
    cell phone
    computer
    vehicle
    pressure washer
    drills of various kinds
    saw of various kinds
    extension cords
    ladders
    etc

    If I had to come up with those products myself.....goodness...

    I rather despise other biz owners who try to say they did it all themselves because it is unbelievably selfish. Without employees I could not have the jobs done on time. Without the clients I wouldn't have the projects to employ people.

    I spend a ton of time behind the scenes so yes I am working more than the people working for me but I still could not do it without them and I pay them on a base scale + performance so they have an honest incentive to work hard knowing I'm not keeping all the money no matter how hard they work.
    You hit the nail on the head. lol Can you imagine having to make everything we use or need from scratch all by ourselves? It boggles the mind to think about. Each of those supplies you mentioned are also businesses that also depend on other business/people to help make the products that they sell to you. Take away one resource in the supply chain and the end users suffer all the way down the line.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Then why do so many of them sing a solo of Frank Sinatra's I DID IT MY WAY and actually believe they accomplished everything all by themsleves?

    Who do so many on the right refuse to admit that society and its desginated government plays a huge role in making this a great country and contributing to the success of the American people?
    Guilt in denial.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Obviously you believe and embrace the fraudulent tactic of intentionally and deliberately perverting what you 'enemies' say and then twisting it even more to create a strawman monster that you can whip up the villagers to attack.

    Who do you think you are fooling with such intellectually bankrupt tactics that are so easily spotted?
    I have no clue what you are blathering about. Your master and his protege-Fauxhchontas-both try to justify taxing the already overtaxed successful by claiming that their success is due to a government they already heavily fund

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    Indivuals and other legal entities are normally in a symbiotic relationship
    with Government. The Government was created to address the corroborative
    needs of our society, Defense, legislative, and Judicial. (The Executive is a management
    function, not an actual task)
    This works best when Government leverages resources to expand the economy.
    Example: Land given to the railroad companies both built the railroad, and increased the value of the land the railroad companies received.
    Through greater commerce, the Government saw tax revenues increase.
    Win- Win .
    Governments are created by Indivuals to provide a framework for
    Indivuals to have an opportunity for prosperity.
    The Government exists to provide the infrastructure for growth.

    When a Government consumes more resources than absolutely necessary,
    It becomes parasitic.
    In a parasitic relationship, the Government starts to consume and kill the hosts.

    “The power to tax, is the power to destroy.”
    which is why I refer to those who constantly argue for more taxes (from other people) "The Parasite Support Team"

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    If someone gets up in front of a group and goes "I couldn't have done it without all your help" do people think the individual is being serious...IE he'd literally been unable to accomplish whatever it is he just did without all the help from specifically every person there....or do you hear it and immedietely understand it's common phrasing with a bit of hyperbole and exaggeration as a means of showing grattitude?

    Why is it then that we immedietely seem to think someone stating that they "Did it on their own" is being 100% literalistic and is meaning that they think they literally gained nothing from anyone in some way that played into what they did, rather than using common phrasing to suggest the importance of their personal drive and determination regarding an issue without having anyone actively significant aiding the on that specific thing.

    If a QB is talking to a bunch of college players and is saying how "To get into the NFL I had to make it on my own. No one could practice for me, I had to be out on that field. No one could put time in the film room for me, I had to devote that time myself. No one could keep myself in shape during the off season, I had to hit the gym every day. If I had been stupid and drank and drove one night and got busted for a DUI and my draft stock fell, that'd be on me. The only person who was responsable for me getting drafted or not is me...and the only person that will be responsible for you being drafted or not is you." are we assuming the man completely forgot or hates his coaches? His trainers? The equipment men or perhaps the teachers that helped him get into the college or anything or that sort? No, but the message at that moment is one of personal responsability and determination and focus. It's the use of a particular phrase that is not meant to be 100% literalistic aimed at instilling a particular message.

    At the same time....

    If a QB is sitting there taking in the lockerroom after a game going "I want to thank all you guys, because this win is because of you. We could've never won that game without this group of players here banding together and doing it. We couldn't have won that game without every person on this roster doing thier job. This win is because of all of us" are we to believe that the QB honestly believes that if they had different players that they would not have been able to win? That if one of the guys that sat on the bench all game but one play didn't "do his job" that they wouldn't have won? That if their star WR had taken a few plays off instead of "banding together" that there would've been no chance they could've won the game? Of course not...again, the individual is using common phrasing to put forward a paritcular message highlighting the community aspect more than the individual.

    Why are we getting so pissy and literalistic when people use common phrasing filled with some hyperbole in one case but seem to have no issue with it in the other case?

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    By Jov, I think you've got it.
    But it doesn't take away the fact that these individual business folks built their business realizing they had an "in demand" product.


    But that still doesn't answer, IMO, why President Obama has alllowed as how, these folks didn't build their businesses on their own. They did, each individual built a business on their skills and a need/consumer.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't buy that. What you're speaking to is American mythology, which is quite different than actual fact. We built forts and communities back then as well as now. The articles of Confederation failed because the federal government was strong enough, and business needed more to succeed. A lot of wealth was built on backs of slaves early on. So, while few to none remove the individual from the equation, because individal vision goes a long way, that vision almost always needs others to reach fulfillment.
    Yeah, because you say so. Don't buy it, buy European socialism, because you are unable to do for yourself. Do you realize that many couldn't afford slaves, and did their own work? You really are in fairyland about slavery.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    He was given credit for it, but the initial designs for it were started a couple of decades before he was president.
    By whom?
    .......
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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