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Thread: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, if you buy the lies, you're just part of the problem.
    Fortunately, those of us who "buy the lies" are about to be the solution. Come NOvember there will be NObama.

    He is a disaster. He must go. His ideas are foreign. His philosophy is Marxist. His beliefs are anti-American, anti-capitalist, anti-liberty.
    NOvember will be a turning point for the nation. If we reject the one term Marxist, as I believe we will, then we are on the very hard path toward liberty once again. If we keep the Marxist in power then it will be time to recognize that this experiment in individual liberty and freedom is over.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You see, your problem is that you don't follow arguments very well (a theme I will continue in my next post).

    My argument is:

    1) Private money, not tax money, got the Golden Gate Bridge built.

    2) As you point out, the bonds were paid back by tolls. Not taxes.

    This, of course, is plenty to shatter the idea that the Golden Gate Bridge was paid for out of tax dollars. It wasn't. And obliviously though you did, you helped show it.
    Oh, for FS, govt fees upon users are little different from taxes, you are quibbling, and I was not making an argument about taxes, the general idea in play is "we all" paid for it. Those additional customers to the business are paying for the access, you have to show how the business is paying for the additional traffic to his door.

    However, as you continued to push on the point, I also observed that:

    3) As the bonds were paid back by the people who use the bridge, looking at the tolls, business pay three to five times more to use it, and possibly more if they use vehicles with more than five axles.
    You are being slippery, we are not talking about the truck owner, we (you and I) are talking about the businesses directly benefiting from the increase in traffic from the bridge and how they do not pay an amount proportional to the benefit derived.

    It's YOU who are trying to delve into an actual accounting of their "increased benefit" of the Golden Gate Bridge. You, of course, have provided absolutely no documentation toward this. I, however, have given you the actual toll schedule. If YOU wish to claim that it's not enough, then it's up to YOU to show it. My entire and sole claim is that yes, they pay considerably more. And if they run more traffic over the bridge, then they pay even more.
    I already showed that for the example we are discussing, the additional cost to the business is tiny, marginal, in comparison to the benefit. You have to show by argument or accounting that the business is somehow bearing a proportional cost for the benefit, yo have not done that.

    So yes, it is indeed "so silly," because the feebleness of your attempt at argument was exposed and dispensed with several posts ago, yet you won't let it go. You insist on making it worse for yourself with each post.

    (Really -- you couldn't have looked up the toll schedule before you posted?)
    I made a counter point, you insist that that you have made a winning argument, but it does not exist in fact.

    No one is forcing you to continue, it is up to you, but the fact is you have not countered my point.
    Last edited by Gimmesometruth; 08-04-12 at 03:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I think the ready availability of nuclear weapons has made the world safe from nuclear war. But it has also made the world safer for small, limited, conventional wars.

    I think there has been a very great societal benefit.
    I agree, the person for whom I was addressing the question would not be inclined to agree.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Nope. This was my entire argument, and I'm correct:
    I agree, that is the entirety of your argument, it is not the entirety of the argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Oh, for FS, govt fees upon users are little different from taxes, you are quibbling, and I was not making an argument about taxes, the general idea in play is "we all" paid for it.

    You're STILL wrong, then, because no, "we all" didn't pay for it. Bank of America paid for its construction; only the people who used it paid back the bonds. The people who used it MORE paid more, and the people who use LARGER COMMERCIAL VEHICLES paid even more.

    This "argument" is a loser for you no matter how many times you want to rephrase it. Why do you not get that? Why do you keep coming back for more?


    Those additional customers to the business are paying for the access, you have to show how the business is paying for the additional traffic to his door.
    You keep injecting bull****. Face it -- your arguments suck. No amount of spaghetti you throw at the wall is going to camouflage it.


    You are being slippery, we are not talking about the truck owner, we (you and I) are talking about the businesses directly benefiting from the increase in traffic from the bridge and how they do not pay an amount proportional to the benefit derived.
    No, this is an entirely new thing you're suddenly throwing in and pretending it's what "we" have been talking about. (While accusing ME of being "slippery.")

    And it's about a point you simply will not -- and cannot -- document.


    I already showed that for the example we are discussing, the additional cost to the business is tiny, marginal, in comparison to the benefit.
    You did? Show me where you did that math.

    No, you just conjectured, posed a hypothetical on what you think must be what actually happens, and you didn't even bother make up any figures for it.


    You have to show by argument or accounting that the business is somehow bearing a proportional cost for the benefit, yo have not done that.
    I don't have to disprove your arguments; you have to prove them.


    I made a counter point, you insist that that you have made a winning argument, but it does not exist in fact.

    No one is forcing you to continue, it is up to you, but the fact is you have not countered my point.
    I countered your point spectacularly. You simply can't decide what your point actually is, apparently. You keep slipping (ar ar) from new point to new point and accusing me of not addressing things you never said.

    But I'll say it again -- show me the math. Give me figures and documentation. Hypotheticals don't cover it.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I agree, that is the entirety of your argument, it is not the entirety of the argument.
    "The argument" is not defined by what YOU wish it was.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You're STILL wrong, then, because no, "we all" didn't pay for it. Bank of America paid for its construction; only the people who used it paid back the bonds.
    I already made clear that the we in this case are the users
    The people who used it MORE paid more, and the people who use LARGER COMMERCIAL VEHICLES paid even more.
    Which again, are not the BUSINESS OWNERS deriving the greater benefit from the increased traffic.

    This "argument" is a loser for you no matter how many times you want to rephrase it. Why do you not get that? Why do you keep coming back for more?You keep injecting bull****. Face it -- your arguments suck. No amount of spaghetti you throw at the wall is going to camouflage it.No, this is an entirely new thing you're suddenly throwing in and pretending it's what "we" have been talking about. (While accusing ME of being "slippery.")
    No, it is not "new", it is the same point from the beginning of our discussion.

    And it's about a point you simply will not -- and cannot -- document.
    You did? Show me where you did that math.No, you just conjectured, posed a hypothetical on what you think must be what actually happens, and you didn't even bother make up any figures for it.I don't have to disprove your arguments; you have to prove them.
    I countered your point spectacularly. You simply can't decide what your point actually is, apparently. You keep slipping (ar ar) from new point to new point and accusing me of not addressing things you never said.
    But I'll say it again -- show me the math. Give me figures and documentation. Hypotheticals don't cover it.
    Really, you need the accounting? It is beyond your ability to conceive of a situation where a bridge is built, dramatically increasing the number of customers to a business, the business pays a tiny fraction of additional cost per unit for the delivery costs for a truck crossing that bridge, but more than makes up for that cost by the increased sales......and the only additional cost to that business for the bridge...is that tiny margin added to the product, which is paid by the massive numbers of new customers? Really?

    This is why I don't bother with you, in the face of overwhelming evidence, you still cannot concede to reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I already made clear that the we in this case are the users
    No, you didn't; you said "we all."

    You're just lying now.

    Which again, are not the BUSINESS OWNERS deriving the greater benefit from the increased traffic.
    Which you've never shown in the slightest to be so; you've simply declared it over and over and over.

    I, however, have shown how much more commercial vehicles pay to cross the bridge.


    No, it is not "new", it is the same point from the beginning of our discussion.
    No, it's not; you made it up out of whole cloth. If you think it's what you've been arguing from the beginning, you are really, really, really, REALLY bad at communicating ideas, because it's not even a tiny bit in the words you put on the screen.

    But, in reality, you just made it up when the other stuff didn't work.


    Really, you need the accounting?
    If you're going to claim that what they pay is "miniscule" compared to their benefit, then yes, you need to show the accounting.

    Otherwise, you're just saying what you hope is true. What you "conceive" is meaningless; your "conception" of something doesn't make it so.


    This is why I don't bother with you, in the face of overwhelming evidence, you still cannot concede to reason.


    1) The only one here who has given any "evidence" is I.

    2) You "don't bother with me," yet I'd never even deal with you if you didn't engage me first, as you did in this thread.

    What I don't "concede" to is unsubstantiated claims, especially when I've backed up my own arguments.

    I take it, though, you've thrown in the towel and aren't even going to attempt to document your cost/benefit analysis claims. Run along if you must.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    LOL....you entirely ignore the main, repeated argument in the last paragraph AGAIN, the one you claimed as new, and show that it is beyond your comprehension.

    This is a perfect example of your repeated inability to effectively debate. Dismissal while ignoring is not debate, it is avoidance.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    LOL....you entirely ignore the main, repeated argument in the last paragraph AGAIN, the one you claimed as new, and show that it is beyond your comprehension.
    Dude.

    Seriously.

    How do you not get that your conjecture, your claim, is meaningless without the actual documentation of fact to back it up?

    You're making a mathematical claim -- show the math. Until you do, you've got exactly bupkis.


    This is a perfect example of your repeated inability to effectively debate. Dismissal while ignoring is not debate, it is avoidance.
    I have repeatedly invited you to substantiate your claims.

    You have repeatedly declined to do so. This is not my problem.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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