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Thread: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by zeusomally View Post
    I will not shed a tear for Exxon. They are making record profits. If government regulations are as onerous as you claim then I doubt they would be as successful as they are. My guess is that many of the government regulations you refer to our rather minor and, in fact, quite wise to have in place.


    Disagree. There has, from day one, been virulent disagreement in American politics between Federalist and Anti-Federalists. This argument is not definitively decided one way or the other in the constitution, despite your desire that it be interpreted as such. We can debate this until we are blue in the face and I am happy to do so.

    Once again, I can point to a ton of countries which have collectivist/socialist elements to their governments that have been and are successful and I still challenge you to show me one that isn't. And advocating elements of socialism/collectivism in government is NOT the same as advocating Communism, Marxism or, even, Socialism in its purest form. I can point to you many cases in which unregulated Capitalism has also resulted in starvation, misery and failure, but this does not mean that Capitalism is not a valid system. It just means that Capitalism, like Socialism, is a system of governance that can be used for either good or bad, depending upon how it is implemented. I am very comfortable with the idea of implementing them both and so are all of the other socially and economically successful nations on this planet.


    No, I just want you to quit yelling that Collectivist government cannot coexist with the free market in a positive way. You don't need to bow to anyone. You just need to acknowledge that taxes can be and are put to good use in many(not all, I acknowledge) instances in ways that benefit all members of society, business owners included.


    Obama has taken credit for nothing. He has always and continues to promote individual initiative. All he is pointing out is that it would be destructive for us to destroy the very government and its institutions and policies that have so greatly contributed to all of our success. This is not to say that the government deserves all of the success, just that it has played a very important role and every time that you or someone else yells "I did this all by myself" you are incorrectly downplaying and ignoring how important government is to creating a healthy business environment. And, once again, we are the ones who elect our government and they are not completely independent of us, but a direct extension of our democratic voices.


    I do not interpret his policies or words to mean that the government is just as important in your success as you are. If he said something like "The government is 80% responsible for your success" then that would be one thing. All he did was point out that noone ever does anything "all by themselves" without the help of others(government included) and you have taken it to mean that he wants to take credit for you success. I really urge your to consider the fact that you may be being a bit alarmist as to how Obama believes about businesses and individual initiative. He is a capitalist through and through-just one that recognizes that there is a strong and important role for government as well.
    Hahaha....the man is not a capitalist. He believes capitalism is "unfair" because it disproportionately rewards some more than others. He was displaying his honest philosophy when he told Joe the Plumber "I just think it's better when you spread the wealth around". His actions speak just as loud as his words. His philosophy encourages government dependency. How else would you interpret pushing to increase welfare roles? Increasing unemployment benefits? Removing work requirements from welfare?

    All of these things counter act against individual responsibility and individualism in general, which is the bedrock principle of capitalism. Capitalism does not punish success. It celebrates it. But instead of celebrating the success of an American company, Exxon Mobil, he uses them as a bullseye target for public enemy number 1. They are demonized....and for what? Record profits. They are chided for being successful. Yet u say he's a capitalist? Lol....that's cute.

    Instead of celebrating successful business owners, he calls on them to pay even more. Sacrifice even more. Share more of the burdens. Then he insults them by saying they didn't build their businesses. And he did say it.

    When the economy is slow, he doesn't turn to the business sector for solutions. He tells the public to put their faith in government stimulus, government bailouts, government. More welfare, more unemployment, less work requirements.

    Please, don't tell me the man is a capitalist. He's everything but....

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Masada View Post
    Hahaha....the man is not a capitalist.....
    he just gave private businesses 30 million more customers.

    this is called "crony-Capitalism".

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    THIS Exxon? You have seen this graphic, havent you? For you to continue to propogate misinformation is just dishonest.

    Attachment 67131432

    If the ACA counts as only one, it has a rather hefty price tag on it.
    Haha. Funny infographic. Funny, because it is deceptive. I suspect that these numbers were figured for the oil companies by counting the federal and state gasoline taxes that consumers pay at the pump. As these taxes are directly passed on to the consumer, it is deceptive to include them as "taxes" for the oil companies themselves. In many cases, the petro companies(and others on this list) also count the payroll taxes their employees pay and also claim that as part of their "tax contribution". It's a very deceptive and insincere way of demonstrating tax liability. Where did this infographic get its data and how, exactly, did it crunch the numbers to come up with these tax rates. I am very suspicious and will continue to be so until I see more evidence.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    THIS Exxon? You have seen this graphic, havent you? For you to continue to propogate misinformation is just dishonest.

    Attachment 67131432

    If the ACA counts as only one, it has a rather hefty price tag on it.
    Wow, Exxon must have some ****ed up accountants if they're paying 10% above the maximum corporate tax rate!

    But in reality, they typically pay about 15% effective rate on their US income.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Masada View Post
    Hahaha....the man is not a capitalist. He believes capitalism is "unfair" because it disproportionately rewards some more than others. He was displaying his honest philosophy when he told Joe the Plumber "I just think it's better when you spread the wealth around". His actions speak just as loud as his words. His philosophy encourages government dependency. How else would you interpret pushing to increase welfare roles? Increasing unemployment benefits? Removing work requirements from welfare?

    All of these things counter act against individual responsibility and individualism in general, which is the bedrock principle of capitalism. Capitalism does not punish success. It celebrates it. But instead of celebrating the success of an American company, Exxon Mobil, he uses them as a bullseye target for public enemy number 1. They are demonized....and for what? Record profits. They are chided for being successful. Yet u say he's a capitalist? Lol....that's cute.

    Instead of celebrating successful business owners, he calls on them to pay even more. Sacrifice even more. Share more of the burdens. Then he insults them by saying they didn't build their businesses. And he did say it.

    When the economy is slow, he doesn't turn to the business sector for solutions. He tells the public to put their faith in government stimulus, government bailouts, government. More welfare, more unemployment, less work requirements.

    Please, don't tell me the man is a capitalist. He's everything but....
    You are putting a lot of words into both mine and the president's mouth. Capitalism, actually, my friend often can cause people to act in a way that is not consistent with individual responsibility. It happens all the time. And wealth absolutely should be spread around. I suppose you thing it best that a very small priviledged few get to hang on to all of it and the rest of us should just be content to wait around and hope a few of the tablescraps trickle down to us. Wealthy inequality is not laughing matter and has serious consequences for the political and economic stability of a nation. Thank god we have a progressive tax system. If we didn't, we'd even be in deeper doodoo than we are now!
    Wealthy business owners got huge tax cuts under Bush and the economy then proceeded to crash, with the middle class suffering the brunt of the damage. Those who are doing well should go back to paying the tax rates they were under Clinton. They are still very low rates, historically speaking, and I think it perfectly reason to expect those that earn more to contribute more.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Masada View Post
    More tired leftist rhetoric. Exxon pays more taxes than any other private company in America. Try taking a look at their financials instead of taking MSNBC's word for it. In addition, Exxon receives the same tax breaks as any other company. It is the leftist liars who deem those generic tax breaks that every business can receive as "subsidies".
    You sure make a lot of stuff up! Exxon receives tons of oil-industry specific breaks, including exceptionally low lease rates for federal oil fields. In '09 they paid ZERO federal income taxes. In 2011 they paid an effective 13% tax rate. A lot of money? Of course; 13% of a bazillion dollars is a lot of money.

    The profit margin for oil and gas industry stands at a meager 7%. That's it.
    A pretty good profit margin, but it's a fairly meaningless statistic except when comparing same-industry stats or same-company stats over a period of years.

    In addition to all that, the government receives more money out of a gallon of gas than the company who brought it all the way to market does. Scabs! They succeed DESPITE the government.
    And the government spends that money building and maintaing the roads, without which poor old Exxon probably wouldn't very profitable. btw, when Exxon reports its tax rate it includes those taxes that are paid directly by customers at the pump. That's how they come up with that ridiculously inflated number.

    And the EPA has passed over 4000 new regulations on one industry.....energy. It's even posted on the white house website. It's common knowledge for those who actually read instead of watch CNN.
    Again, that is an absolute lie. The entire federal government has not passed close to 4000 new regulations in the last three years.

    Businesses know that Obama is no friend to business. He's a central government collectivist who believes government facilitates success.
    Businesses have been racking up record profits for three years.

    You honestly think he values free market principles? Ha! Then why does he work harder at increasing welfare roles than he does creating jobs? Why is his administration offering a $75,000 reward for anyone who can develop innovative ways to increase welfare roles? Why is he issuing waivers to the work requirement for welfare programs that Clinton signed into law? Why does he increase unemployment benefits out to 99 weeks? None of these things promote individual responsibility. They promote government reliance and entitlement and dependency. Why do idiot liberals like Pelosi believe the best way to stimulate the economy is to increase unemployment benefits? Why do liberals like Maxine Waters suggest the best thing to do would be to "socialize....uh, um, basically, uh take over and run your company"?

    You're not fooling anyone. I know exactly who leftists are. They're just too cowardly to admit what they really are.
    Too little time to address all of that insanity.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Anyway, to the clam of what Obama said. I have told people that we read all the words to get meaning. Here are the words Romney and others are leaving out: "The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”

    More explanation:

    The biggest problem with Romney’s ad is that it leaves out just enough chunks of Obama’s words — such as a reference to “roads and bridges”— so that it sounds like Obama is attacking individual initiative. The ad deceivingly cuts away from Obama speaking in order to make it seem as if the sentences follow one another, when in fact eight sentences are snipped away.

    Suddenly, the word “that” appears as if it is referring to a business, rather than (apparently) to roads and bridges.


    An unoriginal Obama quote--taken out of context - The Washington Post

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    More:

    There’s no question Obama inartfully phrased those two sentences, but it’s clear from the context what the president was talking about. He spoke of government — including government-funded education, infrastructure and research — assisting businesses to make what he called “this unbelievable American system that we have.”

    In summary, he said: “The point is … that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”


    FactCheck.org : ‘You Didn’t Build That,’ Uncut and Unedited

    I wonder if honesty matters at all to partisans of all stripes. Both parties lie, and their ads lie, but to me the biggest problem is too many of us promote the lies and never back up from them.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    THIS Exxon? You have seen this graphic, havent you? For you to continue to propogate misinformation is just dishonest.

    Attachment 67131432

    If the ACA counts as only one, it has a rather hefty price tag on it.
    Yeah...and we have the highest corporate tax rate of any country on earth.

    We're number 1!
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    More:

    There’s no question Obama inartfully phrased those two sentences, but it’s clear from the context what the president was talking about. He spoke of government — including government-funded education, infrastructure and research — assisting businesses to make what he called “this unbelievable American system that we have.”

    In summary, he said: “The point is … that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”


    FactCheck.org : ‘You Didn’t Build That,’ Uncut and Unedited

    I wonder if honesty matters at all to partisans of all stripes. Both parties lie, and their ads lie, but to me the biggest problem is too many of us promote the lies and never back up from them.
    Ok, Boo.

    Why? Why is it part of a campaign speech? Is he worried Romney would disband govt or stop building roads? What purpose of thought led to the inclusion of this idea that created this gaff?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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