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Thread: Republicans accuse HHS of gutting welfare reform with quiet policy change

  1. #21
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    Re: Democrats now want welfare to become a way of life for people who do not want to

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    Thank you for asking.

    It is obvious you are a very intelligent person by asking this question rather than stating a political position.

    The answer is "yes". When the unemployed people perform community service they develop a sense of pride in their accomplishments. Also, studies have shown when minority communities are well maintained, the violent crime rates in the neighborhood go way down. This is known as the "broken window" theory.
    Especially as a conservative, I have to strongly disagree with you.

    Community service and volunteer programs are setup to help unemployed people so we're telling unemployed people to help other unemployed people.

    This is despicable because we have to remember that nobody asks to be born into society. It's the same reason we prohibit child abuse and child labor, make parents take responsibility for the delinquency of their children, graduate children into adulthood only after periods of time, and require proficiency before getting licensed.

    If someone is unemployed, that means society has failed to teach the unemployed social values, and allowed labor supply and demand to become desynchronized from social decay. People were allowed to reproduce without having commitment to their children's networking into becoming productive.

    As a conservative, you should realize that social values come first, not industry. Industry is the result of people being thoughtful. By demanding people work for unemployment benefits, we're saying it's OK that parents and administrators weren't thoughtful in planning ahead what it would take for children to fit in.

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    Re: Democrats now want welfare to become a way of life for people who do not want to

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Maybe. For the first two months no, after that yes, and with increasing hours per week required. The same should be true of ANY public assistance. The idea that simply existing and lacking the means to support yourself and your dependents, somehow entitles you to a share of the wages of all others, is not good public policy. Aid for the retired and disabled, such as SS/Medicare, is one thing but aid for ALL is quite another.
    To be clear, I don't support welfare programs. If anyone's funding unemployment benefits, it should be the parents of the unemployed who forced the unemployed into existence without giving consideration to social networking.

    Beyond that (as in the case of parents passing away), the unemployed should be administered over by the same people who allow parents to reproduce. For example, in today's society, we only permit people who have reached the age of majority to have sex. Whoever defines that age (or otherwise qualitative benchmark) should be in charge of unemployment benefits.

    After all, the definers of majority are the people who allow others to assume the risk of bringing people into society incompatibly.

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    Re: Democrats now want welfare to become a way of life for people who do not want to

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Paying unemployed people from government funds to perform needed work in the public sector?
    WPA
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    Sounds good to me.
    Well yea, this is even less conservative than what JC was saying. Public works are the least conservative idea of all. After all, public infrastructure is the antithesis of organic community because it just gets built for raw efficiency. There's no narrative behind it.

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    Re: Democrats now want welfare to become a way of life for people who do not want to

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post

    Especially as a conservative, I have to strongly disagree with you.

    Community service and volunteer programs are setup to help unemployed people so we're telling unemployed people to help other unemployed people.

    This is despicable because we have to remember that nobody asks to be born into society. It's the same reason we prohibit child abuse and child labor, make parents take responsibility for the delinquency of their children, graduate children into adulthood only after periods of time, and require proficiency before getting licensed.

    If someone is unemployed, that means society has failed to teach the unemployed social values, and allowed labor supply and demand to become desynchronized from social decay. People were allowed to reproduce without having commitment to their children's networking into becoming productive.

    As a conservative, you should realize that social values come first, not industry. Industry is the result of people being thoughtful. By demanding people work for unemployment benefits, we're saying it's OK that parents and administrators weren't thoughtful in planning ahead what it would take for children to fit in.
    You are mistaken, Daktoria.

    If someone is unemployed or underemployed, it does not mean society has failed to teach the unemployed social values, and allowed labor supply and demand to become desynchronized from social decay. It does not mean people were allowed to reproduce without having commitment to their children's networking into becoming productive.

    It means they are receiving unemployment benefits or are working one job until they can find a better job for which they are highly qualified.

    Nice try, but no cigar.

  5. #25
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    Re: Democrats now want welfare to become a way of life for people who do not want to

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    Sadly, it is clear the Democrats want welfare to become a way of life for people who do not want to work.

    What is wrong with these misguided people? What direction are the trying to take our nation? Do they want us to instead become a nation of "freeloaders" who depend on working taxpayers for their monthly incomes as Greece and Spain have now become in Europe?

    Discussion follows.

    Note: FoxNews as a news source is clearly considered as mainstream media.

    Republicans are accusing the Obama administration of unilaterally gutting welfare reform after the Department of Health and Human Services quietly notified states that they may seek a waiver for the program's strict work requirements.

    HHS made the announcement in a policy memo Thursday, news that slipped well below the radar amid a raucous day on the presidential campaign trail. But a few prominent GOP lawmakers on Capitol Hill picked up on the change, and accused the administration of overhauling one of the most important bipartisan agreements of the past several decades.

    "President Obama just tore up a basic foundation of the welfare contract" Republican Study Committee Chairman Jim Jordan, D-Ohio, said in a statement. He also called the move a "blatant violation of the law."

    Mitt Romney on Friday spoke up on the change, saying: "President Obama now wants to strip the established work requirements from welfare." He said "the linkage of work and welfare is essential to prevent welfare from becoming a way of life."

    The hard-fought welfare reform agreement in 1996 was struck between the Bill Clinton administration and a Republican-led Congress. It is still considered a signature legislative achievement from that period.

    The number of people on Temporary Assistance for Needy Families has decreased dramatically since 1997, but roughly 4 million people are still enrolled according to federal figures. The change comes in the middle of a competitive election fight between Obama and Romney.

    Rep. Dave Camp, chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, and Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, have written to HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius asking for a more detailed explanation of the change and her authority for making it. Both expressed concern that the change would strip the crux of the 1996 welfare reform deal.

    "This ends welfare reform as we know it," Camp said in a statement.

    I'm disappointed that after years of sitting on their hands and failing to propose any significant improvements to the TANF programs, the Obama Administration is once again over-stepping their authority and attempting to circumvent Congress through an unprecedented bypass of the legislative process," Hatch said

    source: Republicans accuse HHS of gutting welfare reform with quiet policy change | Fox News
    I'm pretty sure that it has less to do with Democrats wanting people to get welfare without working and that it has more to do with over 8% of the American populace not being able to get a job. And that doesn't include those Americans who have a job but aren't making a livable wage.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Democrats now want welfare to become a way of life for people who do not want to

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    You are mistaken, Daktoria.

    If someone is unemployed or underemployed, it does not mean society has failed to teach the unemployed social values, and allowed labor supply and demand to become desynchronized from social decay. It does not mean people were allowed to reproduce without having commitment to their children's networking into becoming productive.

    It means they are receiving unemployment benefits or are working one job until they can find a better job for which they are highly qualified.

    Nice try, but no cigar.
    I don't buy this because jobs don't come out of nowhere. Jobs exist because people imagine something to do.

    If people are having children, but things to do aren't being imagined, then the labor supply is being expanded recklessly.

    We can't forget that conservatism makes family values priority number one, especially since children don't ask to be brought into the world.

    When people are unemployed, it's because they can't assimilate into the workforce. Lack of social assimilation means lack of social values.

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    Re: Democrats now want welfare to become a way of life for people who do not want to

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    Sadly, it is clear the Democrats want welfare to become a way of life for people who do not want to work.

    What is wrong with these misguided people? What direction are the trying to take our nation? Do they want us to instead become a nation of "freeloaders" who depend on working taxpayers for their monthly incomes as Greece and Spain have now become in Europe?

    Discussion follows.

    Note: FoxNews as a news source is clearly considered as mainstream media.

    Republicans are accusing the Obama administration of unilaterally gutting welfare reform after the Department of Health and Human Services quietly notified states that they may seek a waiver for the program's strict work requirements.

    HHS made the announcement in a policy memo Thursday, news that slipped well below the radar amid a raucous day on the presidential campaign trail. But a few prominent GOP lawmakers on Capitol Hill picked up on the change, and accused the administration of overhauling one of the most important bipartisan agreements of the past several decades.

    "President Obama just tore up a basic foundation of the welfare contract" Republican Study Committee Chairman Jim Jordan, D-Ohio, said in a statement. He also called the move a "blatant violation of the law."

    Mitt Romney on Friday spoke up on the change, saying: "President Obama now wants to strip the established work requirements from welfare." He said "the linkage of work and welfare is essential to prevent welfare from becoming a way of life."

    The hard-fought welfare reform agreement in 1996 was struck between the Bill Clinton administration and a Republican-led Congress. It is still considered a signature legislative achievement from that period.

    The number of people on Temporary Assistance for Needy Families has decreased dramatically since 1997, but roughly 4 million people are still enrolled according to federal figures. The change comes in the middle of a competitive election fight between Obama and Romney.

    Rep. Dave Camp, chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, and Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, have written to HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius asking for a more detailed explanation of the change and her authority for making it. Both expressed concern that the change would strip the crux of the 1996 welfare reform deal.

    "This ends welfare reform as we know it," Camp said in a statement.

    I'm disappointed that after years of sitting on their hands and failing to propose any significant improvements to the TANF programs, the Obama Administration is once again over-stepping their authority and attempting to circumvent Congress through an unprecedented bypass of the legislative process," Hatch said

    source: Republicans accuse HHS of gutting welfare reform with quiet policy change | Fox News
    I've thought this for years. What's the saying?

    A government with the policy to rob Peter to pay Paul can be assured of Paul's support.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Democrats now want welfare to become a way of life for people who do not want to

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    I don't buy this because jobs don't come out of nowhere. Jobs exist because people imagine something to do.

    If people are having children, but things to do aren't being imagined, then the labor supply is being expanded recklessly.

    We can't forget that conservatism makes family values priority number one, especially since children don't ask to be brought into the world.

    When people are unemployed, it's because they can't assimilate into the workforce. Lack of social assimilation means lack of social values.
    a great deal of the time, people are unemployed because the job market is down locally, and up overseas...
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    Re: Democrats now want welfare to become a way of life for people who do not want to

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    JC, let me ask you something.

    Do you think it's a good idea to make the unemployed perform community service or volunteer work to be entitled to unemployment benefits?
    take out the word MAKE, type in the word ALLOW.....that adds DIGNITY to welfare and unemployment....
    Last edited by UtahBill; 07-13-12 at 08:04 PM.
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    Re: Democrats now want welfare to become a way of life for people who do not want to

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    a great deal of the time, people are unemployed because the job market is down locally, and up overseas...
    Believe me, I don't support free trade or free labor. They raise the question about the definition of domestic society.

    Free trade and free labor are about efficiency, and efficiency is nice when it comes to getting things done...

    ...but society is not merely about getting things done. It's about getting things done with a purpose.

    When people are unemployed, that means people had more children without a purpose.

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