Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 25 of 25

Thread: Romney hits Obama move gutting welfare reform

  1. #21
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Romney hits Obama move gutting welfare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Slow down there, Sloppy. At this rate you and Deuce will destroy the world’s supply of strawmen.

    My point was simple: Federal law doesn’t permit HHS to grant exceptions to the work requirement. HHS didn’t even call it a states’ rights issue. Only you and Deuce are calling this a states’ rights issue.
    Well, that wasn't actually the point you made that I was responding to: "this is federal money and federal law so it isn’t a states’ rights issue."

    So it seems pretty clear to me that you're making at least two points: 1) Obama doesn't have the authority to give the states this power, and 2) the states SHOULD not have this power. It SHOULD be dictated to the states by the federal government.

    According to the administration, the move was made in response to complaints by state officials -- both Republicans and Democrats -- that he rules were too rigid and actually made it harder than necessary to place welfare recipients in jobs.
    Last edited by AdamT; 07-14-12 at 01:44 AM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  2. #22
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,323

    Re: Romney hits Obama move gutting welfare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I don't see the move as requiring justification. Allowing waivers is not the same thing as removing the requirement. Sometimes there are circumstances in which a waiver would be warranted, wouldn't you say?
    Not the same in a legal sense, but he same result. Now you know why Bill Clinton doesn't like Obama.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  3. #23
    #NeverTrump
    a351's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Space Coast
    Last Seen
    09-09-17 @ 08:54 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    6,902

    Re: Romney hits Obama move gutting welfare reform

    Upon further examination, the changes hardly seem sinister, nor do they "gut" the law as it currently stands. As other posters have previously mentioned, these changes were made in part due to the suggestions of state leaders of both political affiliations.

    Currently, states have to have 50 percent of their caseload meet certain work participation requirements, though there are ways around that as many states fall short.
    The latest department directive suggested alternative plans could "combine learning and work" to fulfill the work requirement, or let "vocational educational training or job search /readiness programs" count as well.

    George Sheldon, acting assistant secretary for the Administration for Children and Families, said states will be held "accountable" for their alternative plans. He pitched the changes as a response to states burdened by current rules and guidelines.
    "The new steps we have taken will give states more flexibility in how they operate the Temporary Assistance to Need Families program. And the steps we have taken were specifically requested by states led by officials from both parties," he wrote. "When the Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF) program was established as part of welfare reform in the 1990s, it was intended to give states flexibility to design effective programs to help parents move from welfare to work. Today, however, Federal rules dictate mind-numbing details about how to run a welfare-to-work program. Most States and experts agree that these aren't helpful."
    Last edited by a351; 07-14-12 at 09:20 AM.

  4. #24
    Guru
    GPS_Flex's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    02-11-17 @ 11:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,719

    Re: Romney hits Obama move gutting welfare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    So it seems pretty clear to me that you're making at least two points: 1) Obama doesn't have the authority to give the states this power,
    Correct, although we aren’t talking about “power” here, we are talking about amendments to a federal law. You might recall in your Government 101 class that the President doesn’t have the authority to pass or amend laws on his own.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    and 2) the states SHOULD not have this power.
    Again, this isn’t about power, this is about federal law that grants money to states for their welfare programs. If the states want the money, the states follow the requirements in the federal law. As for whether the states SHOULD have the option to wave the work requirement for federal welfare money, I say no, they shouldn’t. Many do it with their own state money which is fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It SHOULD be dictated to the states by the federal government.
    It is a block grant for states to use for their welfare programs. Conditions and restrictions on the way that money can be used is only logical.


    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    According to the administration, the move was made in response to complaints by state officials -- both Republicans and Democrats -- that he rules were too rigid and actually made it harder than necessary to place welfare recipients in jobs.
    Guess what? We already have a process in place that allows for any changes to any laws we might deem necessary. You can learn more about how this works by reading this: Constitution of the United States

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  5. #25
    Guru
    GPS_Flex's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    02-11-17 @ 11:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,719

    Re: Romney hits Obama move gutting welfare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Upon further examination, the changes hardly seem sinister, nor do they "gut" the law as it currently stands. As other posters have previously mentioned, these changes were made in part due to the suggestions of state leaders of both political affiliations.
    Go read your constitution. Just because some states desire a change doesn't mean the POTUS has the power to change the law on his own. It takes an act of congress.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •