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Thread: Romney hits Obama move gutting welfare reform

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    Re: Romney hits Obama move gutting welfare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    And this justifies Obama's move how?
    I don't see the move as requiring justification. Allowing waivers is not the same thing as removing the requirement. Sometimes there are circumstances in which a waiver would be warranted, wouldn't you say?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Romney hits Obama move gutting welfare reform

    While the TANF work participation requirements are contained in section 407, section 402(a)(1)(A)(iii) requires that the state plan “[e]nsure that parents and caretakers receiving assistance under the program engage in work activities in accordance with section 407.” Thus, HHS has authority to waive compliance with this 402 requirement and authorize a state to test approaches and methods other than those set forth in section 407, including definitions of work activities and engagement, specified limitations, verification procedures, and the calculation of participation rates. As described below, however, HHS will only consider approving waivers relating to the work participation requirements that make changes intended to lead to more effective means of meeting the work goals of TANF.
    I'm not seeing the problem here.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Romney hits Obama move gutting welfare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I'm not seeing the problem here.
    Obama Guts Welfare Reform
    In establishing TANF, Congress deliberately exempted or shielded nearly all of the TANF program from the section 1115 waiver authority. They did not want the law to be rewritten at the whim of Health and Human Services (HHS) bureaucrats. Of the roughly 35 sections of the TANF law, only one is listed as waiveable under section 1115. This is section 402.
    In other words, HHS/Obama do not have the power to do this. It is an attempt to waive the work requirement, plain and simple.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Romney hits Obama move gutting welfare reform

    More Obama vote buying with tax money in an election year. Yes he can!
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Romney hits Obama move gutting welfare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Obama Guts Welfare Reform


    In other words, HHS/Obama do not have the power to do this. It is an attempt to waive the work requirement, plain and simple.
    So we've gone from the Washington Examiner to a blogger from the Heritage Foundation. You seem to be taking their interpretations at face value.

    His interpretation are entirely speculative. The requirement doesn't go away, but this guidance clarifies that states have the authority to grant waivers to section 402 which discusses how to go about meeting those requirements. The idea that this will result in people on Weight Watchers counting as "working" is wildly speculative. The goal is still to get people to work. That is explicitly stated.

    But have fun with the tinfoil hat. It must be true because those darned liberals want to just give all your money away for no reason, right?

    Don't you support states' rights? Shouldn't they be allowed to be flexible and test ways to improve things on their own?
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-13-12 at 03:21 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Romney hits Obama move gutting welfare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    So we've gone from the Washington Examiner to a blogger from the Heritage Foundation. You seem to be taking their interpretations at face value.

    His interpretation are entirely speculative. The requirement doesn't go away, but this guidance clarifies that states have the authority to grant waivers to section 402 which discusses how to go about meeting those requirements. The idea that this will result in people on Weight Watchers counting as "working" is wildly speculative. The goal is still to get people to work. That is explicitly stated.

    But have fun with the tinfoil hat. It must be true because those darned liberals want to just give all your money away for no reason, right?

    Don't you support states' rights? Shouldn't they be allowed to be flexible and test ways to improve things on their own?
    For starters, this is federal money and federal law so it isn’t a states’ rights issue.

    Second, whether you agree with the conservative positions the Heritage Foundation takes or not, the explanation/link I posted in response to your comment makes sense. Obama’s/HHS’ view on the legality of this move is even more speculative however because no one has ever questioned whether congress intended to allow HHS to waive the work requirement because it was so obviously written in a way so as to prevent exactly what Obama is trying to do.

    Any provision of law that can be waived under section 1115 must be listed in section 1115 itself. The work provisions of the TANF program are contained in section 407 (entitled, appropriately, “mandatory work requirements”). Critically, this section, as well as most other TANF requirements, are deliberately not listed in section 1115; they are not waiveable.
    Now, if you are making the claim that HHS is only waiving the "reporting requirements" within Section 402 and section 1115, I’m interested in knowing upon what basis you make such claims.
    Last edited by GPS_Flex; 07-13-12 at 04:13 PM.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Romney hits Obama move gutting welfare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    For starters, this is federal money and federal law so it isn’t a states’ rights issue.
    Not so fast there, Slick. Medicare is federal money and federal law and yet Republicans constantly argue that states should have more freedom as to how it's implemented. Romney's whol health care plan seems to be to block grant Medicare funds to the states and let them decide how to spend it. But now you're arguing that states should NOT have the ability to grant exceptions under TANF?

    You think the fact that we have 8+% unemployment might have something to do with it?
    Last edited by AdamT; 07-13-12 at 05:30 PM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Romney hits Obama move gutting welfare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Most people on welfare work anyway.
    That wont be the case before long.

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    Re: Romney hits Obama move gutting welfare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    So we've gone from the Washington Examiner to a blogger from the Heritage Foundation. You seem to be taking their interpretations at face value.

    His interpretation are entirely speculative. The requirement doesn't go away, but this guidance clarifies that states have the authority to grant waivers to section 402 which discusses how to go about meeting those requirements. The idea that this will result in people on Weight Watchers counting as "working" is wildly speculative. The goal is still to get people to work. That is explicitly stated.

    But have fun with the tinfoil hat. It must be true because those darned liberals want to just give all your money away for no reason, right?

    Don't you support states' rights? Shouldn't they be allowed to be flexible and test ways to improve things on their own?
    Oh...it's about State's rights now, eh? Somehow I doubt that. If you want it to be up to the States, then repeal all federal law concerning welfare and let the States create their own.
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    Re: Romney hits Obama move gutting welfare reform

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Not so fast there, Slick. Medicare is federal money and federal law and yet Republicans constantly argue that states should have more freedom as to how it's implemented. Romney's whol health care plan seems to be to block grant Medicare funds to the states and let them decide how to spend it. But now you're arguing that states should NOT have the ability to grant exceptions under TANF?

    You think the fact that we have 8+% unemployment might have something to do with it?
    Slow down there, Sloppy. At this rate you and Deuce will destroy the world’s supply of strawmen.

    My point was simple: Federal law doesn’t permit HHS to grant exceptions to the work requirement. HHS didn’t even call it a states’ rights issue. Only you and Deuce are calling this a states’ rights issue.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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