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Thread: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    So then it's a fools quest to once again attempt to snuff out the black market.
    Why are you all so fear-filled by a "fools quest"?
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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Why are you all so fear-filled by a "fools quest"?
    You should actually read what I think about this proposal, and how I don't think it's an attempt to disarm the American populace. I simply don't like wasting time money and effort on foreseeable failure.
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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    It still concerns a NONevent that DIDN'T happen two years ago and ISN'T happening now. Keeping a wild assed rumor in play doesn't make it true, just shows a few will hold onto BS no matter how senseless it is...

    No treaty, it is a study and without USofA military support no weapons will be taken from any homes anywhere on the planet. What would be nice is if a few covert arms dealers were shut down in the third world.

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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    It still concerns a NONevent that DIDN'T happen two years ago and ISN'T happening now. Keeping a wild assed rumor in play doesn't make it true, just shows a few will hold onto BS no matter how senseless it is...

    No treaty, it is a study and without USofA military support no weapons will be taken from any homes anywhere on the planet. What would be nice is if a few covert arms dealers were shut down in the third world.
    Your that confident in the UN and our elected leaders? Really?!?
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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    It still concerns a NONevent that DIDN'T happen two years ago and ISN'T happening now. Keeping a wild assed rumor in play doesn't make it true, just shows a few will hold onto BS no matter how senseless it is...

    No treaty, it is a study and without USofA military support no weapons will be taken from any homes anywhere on the planet. What would be nice is if a few covert arms dealers were shut down in the third world.
    Now I'm confused, are you talking about the UN Arms Trade Treaty, or something else? Because I'm addressing the ATT. The only way illegal arms dealers are going to close shop is if law enforcement in the regions affected do something about it. Since in most cases law enforcement in those regions is the problem, the UN is unable to realistically do anything about it.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    Now I'm confused, are you talking about the UN Arms Trade Treaty, or something else? Because I'm addressing the ATT. The only way illegal arms dealers are going to close shop is if law enforcement in the regions affected do something about it. Since in most cases law enforcement in those regions is the problem, the UN is unable to realistically do anything about it.
    In most of the problematic areas of the globe law enforcement is the problem, no argument there. Even when the authorities are honest black market gun dealers are usually better armed than they are, and they are close enough to hold their own against NATO forces due to that body's ROE.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    In most of the problematic areas of the globe law enforcement is the problem, no argument there. Even when the authorities are honest black market gun dealers are usually better armed than they are, and they are close enough to hold their own against NATO forces due to that body's ROE.
    The problem with NATO is that they aren't a military organization as much as they're peace keepers. They aren't meant to go after arms dealers, drug runners, or opposing combatant organizations. The role changed a little bit after 9/11, but they still remain toothless as actual combatants. I view them more in the same light as the red cross than soldiers. They have their place, for sure, but that place isn't combat operations, which is what pushing the arms trade in problematic regions will turn into.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    The problem with NATO is that they aren't a military organization as much as they're peace keepers. They aren't meant to go after arms dealers, drug runners, or opposing combatant organizations. The role changed a little bit after 9/11, but they still remain toothless as actual combatants. I view them more in the same light as the red cross than soldiers. They have their place, for sure, but that place isn't combat operations, which is what pushing the arms trade in problematic regions will turn into.
    I've got plenty of friends who are or were military, over beers once one who is older than me told me about the Clinton era when we went into Africa trying to aid a NATO relief mission. The warlords opened fire on a crowd of displaced citizens who were trying to get the relief supplies dropped and the NATO forces tried to intervene, but due to ROEs at the time they had to call in permission to fire back at the warlords which was denied, our contingent watched the other nation members getting plastered and all looked around and basically said "**** this, if we can't fire back we'll just watch, we aren't getting murdered for these ROEs". I would assume it's still the same problem now.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    NATO was a military organization built to stop Soviet infiltration in Europe and the North Atlantic. Not as peacekeepers or international law enforcement.

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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    NATO was a military organization built to stop Soviet infiltration in Europe and the North Atlantic. Not as peacekeepers or international law enforcement.
    Incorrect, it was originally intended to be a vehicle to include the United States military in future Western European protection, it had nothing to do with Soviet expansion. Proof of that is all the problems we as a nation have had due to NATO stepping into situations it wasn't prepared for, some involving Soviets and others not so much. NATO has evolved into a peacekeeping force and in fact they are referred to during actions as peacekeepers, exceptions being the Afghanistan and Iraq theaters.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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