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Thread: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

  1. #181
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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    There are already weapons trafficing laws in place. Why not just enforce those?
    You know our Justice Department would rather traffic weapons than enforce existing laws.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Generalizations are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    One thing that keeps resonating from this article that really bothers me is the prediction that it simply won't be effective in doing what it's supposed to do, which is keeping arms out of the hands of nations that collude with terrorists, and oppressive states. Another issue is how do we define oppressive states, and terrorists? Those are broad terms, subject to individual interpretation. The outlines are too vague to be realistic, which is a stated problem. Honestly, I think we should dismiss it, just like we dismissed the Kyoto Protocol. I don't see anything good coming from it.
    I agree that vague terms are easy to exploit, the goal should be to write them in such a fashion in which the United States is doing the exploiting. The overall principles of the conference are ultimately going to be less important than diplomatic weaseling with the details. I share your skepticism about getting any tangible accomplishments with the treaty, but it costs little in the attempt and its simple enough to avoid ratification if the final result isn't worthwhile.

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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I'd love to see the text of this evil treaty that you claim to know soo much about.
    Or you can just swallow it hook, line, and sinker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Generalizations are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    To those who have bought into the Blue helmet invasion delusion there can be no rational explanation suitable to stop the paranoia. Any attempt to dis-CUSS the treaty and how nonthreatening it is to firearm owners in the USofA is simple dismissed and incomprehensible.

    There is a threat and that is all there is to it. Any straw of support for the Mein Kampf fearmongering is turned into a pillar of stone. Any facts against the delusion is called appeasement.

    We either will be helpless against the blue helmets who can't keep a mud hut nation peaceful,

    Or have millions of brothers and sisters ready to stand shoulder to shoulder to repel the invaders.

    Seems to me, and I am a supporter of the 2nd A- some will use anything, no matter how silly to try and work the crowd for money. I am an NRA member, mostly to hold a F-Class national rank, but they are becoming wearing thin with all this 'gun-grabbing' BS.

    There are a lot of things that 'could happen'. I'm amazed out staunch supporters of the 2nd A have to be so hysterical in these discussions...

    Steady up there boys, hard to dress the line and stand shoulder to shoulder with all this running around like your ass hair is on fire.

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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    I agree that vague terms are easy to exploit, the goal should be to write them in such a fashion in which the United States is doing the exploiting. The overall principles of the conference are ultimately going to be less important than diplomatic weaseling with the details. I share your skepticism about getting any tangible accomplishments with the treaty, but it costs little in the attempt and its simple enough to avoid ratification if the final result isn't worthwhile.
    I understand where you are coming from, however the history of U.N. debate has proved time and again that having something concrete and final is nearly impossible.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    I agree that vague terms are easy to exploit, the goal should be to write them in such a fashion in which the United States is doing the exploiting. The overall principles of the conference are ultimately going to be less important than diplomatic weaseling with the details. I share your skepticism about getting any tangible accomplishments with the treaty, but it costs little in the attempt and its simple enough to avoid ratification if the final result isn't worthwhile.
    I agree, however, with something like this they may actually want it vague so it's "open" to include new situations. Personally, I don't see why we need a treaty to restrict giving arms to "terrorist" nations. We already sanction the **** out of nations like Iran and North Korea, and restrict what they can and can't have, so I'm having a hard time seeing this as anything but redundant.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    To those who have bought into the Blue helmet invasion delusion there can be no rational explanation suitable to stop the paranoia. Any attempt to dis-CUSS the treaty and how nonthreatening it is to firearm owners in the USofA is simple dismissed and incomprehensible.

    There is a threat and that is all there is to it. Any straw of support for the Mein Kampf fearmongering is turned into a pillar of stone. Any facts against the delusion is called appeasement.

    We either will be helpless against the blue helmets who can't keep a mud hut nation peaceful,

    Or have millions of brothers and sisters ready to stand shoulder to shoulder to repel the invaders.
    Pretty sure that'll never happen, since NATO is a peacekeeping organization, not a military organization. I could be wrong, but I don't believe they've ever had authorization to use deadly force. They are placed in hot spots to observe, and give aid to those who need it. Shooting a blue helmet is really no different than killing a medic, or a red cross/crescent guy.


    Seems to me, and I am a supporter of the 2nd A- some will use anything, no matter how silly to try and work the crowd for money. I am an NRA member, mostly to hold a F-Class national rank, but they are becoming wearing thin with all this 'gun-grabbing' BS.

    There are a lot of things that 'could happen'. I'm amazed out staunch supporters of the 2nd A have to be so hysterical in these discussions...

    Steady up there boys, hard to dress the line and stand shoulder to shoulder with all this running around like your ass hair is on fire.
    I'm starting to think it's a scam gun retailers use to up their sales. Every time a democrat gets in office, gun sales sky rocket due to hysteria.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  8. #188
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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    Shhhhh-
    don't let the cat out of the bag...

    Each election cycle the NRA, GOA, local gun shop wails about the 'hidden agenda' to the point even when NO attempt is made to restrict the 2nd A, one needs to be ginned up. The UN STUDY on how to control small arm sales in the turbulent third world is just that, there is NO, I say again for those with a low IQ, there is NO Treaty, nothing to sign.

    This started in 2010 and is still being trotted out to stir up the already up in arms right wingnuts.

    No way, no how the Senate, ANY Senate would ratify such a treaty if it included provisions to override our Constitution.

    But until a new tactic can be developed the usual fearmongers will have to continue to beat this drum. For my marksmanship expenses it is right up there with speculator scare tactics to justify the increased price of the bullets I buy in bulk, or the wait in line at the 'gun' counter as nimrods ask such insightful questions like what caliber the AR15 is...

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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I'd love to see the text of this evil treaty that you claim to know soo much about.
    It hasn't been written yet. That's what you've claimed, anyway. Now, you asking me to show you the text, knowing that it hasn't been written?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #190
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    Re: UN Arms Treaty could put US gun owners in foreign sights, say critics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    I agree, however, with something like this they may actually want it vague so it's "open" to include new situations. Personally, I don't see why we need a treaty to restrict giving arms to "terrorist" nations. We already sanction the **** out of nations like Iran and North Korea, and restrict what they can and can't have, so I'm having a hard time seeing this as anything but redundant.
    The goal of the conference isn't about people selling weapons to nation states, but rather people illicitly transferring weapons to non-governmental organizations. There are many nations who don't have effective border security on weapons shipments, which make them hubs for illegal arms distribution networks.

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