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Thread: In Maryland, Higher Taxes Chase Out Rich: Study(edited)

  1. #51
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    Re: Targets of Liberal Tax Mania Vote with Their Feet

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    Well then obviously the solution is to have higher taxes on the rich everywhere, so they've got nowhere to run to. duh.
    the rich should band together and crush the parasites

  2. #52
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    Re: Targets of Liberal Tax Mania Vote with Their Feet

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Was there a reason you instantly resorted to ad hominem attacks? Is discussing change not debatable?
    This thread is about ONE state's income tax policy decision, and its direct effects, not the right of a state to have that power.

    When discussing/debating a STATE government taxation matter, one that instantly dismisses the very NATURE of states rights, and jumps to proposing "changes" that override ALL such state, local and popular power, demanding that "the solution" is ALL gov't be federal is WELL BEYOND discussing the effects of this policy and transfers the focus of the thread to unrelated areas. I sought to remind this poser that not sticking to the confines of OUR constitution, is well beyond CURRENT federal powers, and has no bearing on the right of a state gov't to make taxation policy decisions, in order to fund actions well within the constitutional responsibility and rights of a state.

    Change by constitutional amendment yes, federal takeover and regulation of state taxation policy to make them "correct", "fair" and uniform no. The idea that anything, at any level of gov't (state level in this thread), that does not conform to the "likes" of someone, is not grounds for "uniformity" or a federal takeover. The people of MD, via their elected officials, made a choice to change their income taxation temporarily, and I assume that the poster thought that extremely high income taxation rates for the upper income brackets was "wise" public policy, and thus should be mandated policy in all states, even though the great teleprompter wizard Obama has YET to do so, on a national level.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #53
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    Re: Targets of Liberal Tax Mania Vote with Their Feet

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    This thread is about ONE state's income tax policy decision, and its direct effects, not the right of a state to have that power.

    When discussing/debating a STATE government taxation matter, one that instantly dismisses the very NATURE of states rights, and jumps to proposing "changes" that override ALL such state, local and popular power, demanding that "the solution" is ALL gov't be federal is WELL BEYOND discussing the effects of this policy and transfers the focus of the thread to unrelated areas. I sought to remind this poser that not sticking to the confines of OUR constitution, is well beyond CURRENT federal powers, and has no bearing on the right of a state gov't to make taxation policy decisions, in order to fund actions well within the constitutional responsibility and rights of a state.

    Change by constitutional amendment yes, federal takeover and regulation of state taxation policy to make them "correct", "fair" and uniform no. The idea that anything, at any level of gov't (state level in this thread), that does not conform to the "likes" of someone, is not grounds for "uniformity" or a federal takeover. The people of MD, via their elected officials, made a choice to change their income taxation temporarily, and I assume that the poster thought that extremely high income taxation rates for the upper income brackets was "wise" public policy, and thus should be mandated policy in all states, even though the great teleprompter wizard Obama has YET to do so, on a national level.
    Thing is, you merely assumed that he wasn't referring to constitutional amendments and jumped right into the "moron" statement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

  4. #54
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    Re: Targets of Liberal Tax Mania Vote with Their Feet

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Thing is, you merely assumed that he wasn't referring to constitutional amendments and jumped right into the "moron" statement.
    That is true, yet that poster had ample opportunity to go there yet did not. The answer to all problems is NOT federal control, and there have been no calls from this poster for constitutional amemdments in this or other threads, that I have seen. The theme is always for more gov't, more taxation of the wealthy; and that states which elect to attract and welcome businesses, and their wealthy owners (and employment opportunities), with less regulation and taxation are somehow "cheating" the other states. This argument is constantly used to demand federal protection (or bailouts) for unions and high tax states, as more of their businesses, industry and associated jobs NATURALLY migrate to states that offer better environments. The resulting "tax vacuum" and unemployment are then seen as a federal problem.

    MD got away with it temporarily ONLY beacuse, like VA and DC, they have a huge stable fedral GOV'T based employment source based on their proximity to great gobs of federal tax money and its associated power. DC has the highest per capita "output" (GDP) in the nation, yet produces absolutely NOTHING but gov't paperwork. Note the continuing transfer of auto manufacturing from the "rust belt" to the southern states. Note how the low tax states are being chosen overwhelmingly as retirement destinations, as people work and amass fortunes in the high cost states and then leave ASAP, to enjoy spending that money in the lower taxed, and lower cost of living, states.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-11-12 at 11:56 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  5. #55
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    Re: Targets of Liberal Tax Mania Vote with Their Feet

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That is true, yet that poster had ample opportunity to go there yet did not. The answer to all problems is NOT federal control, and there have been no calls from this poster for constitutional amemdments in this or other threads, that I have seen. The theme is always for more gov't, more taxation of the wealthy; and that states which elect to attract and welcome businesses, and their wealthy owners (and employment opportunities), with less regulation and taxation are somehow "cheating" the other states. This argument is constantly used to demand federal protection (or bailouts) for unions and high tax states, as more of their businesses, industry and associated jobs NATURALLY migrate to states that offer better environments. The resulting "tax vacuum" and unemployment are then seen as a federal problem.

    MD got away with it temporarily ONLY beacuse, like VA and DC, they have a huge stable fedral GOV'T based employment source based on their proximity to great gobs of federal tax money and its associated power. DC has the highest per capita "output" (GDP) in the nation, yet produces absolutely NOTHING but gov't paperwork. Note the continuing transfer of auto manufacturing from the "rust belt" to the southern states. Note how the low tax states are being chosen overwhelmingly as retirement destinations, as people work and amass fortunes in the high cost states and then leave ASAP, to enjoy spending that money in the lower taxed, and lower cost of living, states.
    Yeah, this is shocking: people want something for nothing.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  6. #56
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    Re: Targets of Liberal Tax Mania Vote with Their Feet

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Yeah, this is shocking: people want something for nothing.
    People may think they want something for nothing, but the something is never very good, and the nothing
    turns out not to be free.
    For some reason, people don't appreciate or value things given to them.
    The things they earn through their own labor, are held in much higher value.
    It's about about the human spirit, being recognized and rewarded for a job well done.
    Free stuff dampens human initiative and creativity.

  7. #57
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    Re: Targets of Liberal Tax Mania Vote with Their Feet

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    People may think they want something for nothing, but the something is never very good, and the nothing
    turns out not to be free.
    For some reason, people don't appreciate or value things given to them.
    The things they earn through their own labor, are held in much higher value.
    It's about about the human spirit, being recognized and rewarded for a job well done.
    Free stuff dampens human initiative and creativity.
    The point is that nothing is free. Roads aren't free, national security isn't free, police protection isn't free, fire safety isn't free, educating your children isn't free, a safety net isn't free, food security isn't free, environmental protection isn't free, trade administration isn't free.... Just because you didn't personally negotiate a trade pact with Cheatistan doesn't mean that it didn't cost anything. But some people want all of these things and don't think they should have to pay for them.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  8. #58
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    Re: Targets of Liberal Tax Mania Vote with Their Feet

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The point is that nothing is free. Roads aren't free, national security isn't free, police protection isn't free, fire safety isn't free, educating your children isn't free, a safety net isn't free, food security isn't free, environmental protection isn't free, trade administration isn't free.... Just because you didn't personally negotiate a trade pact with Cheatistan doesn't mean that it didn't cost anything. But some people want all of these things and don't think they should have to pay for them.
    Your perspective is out of focus. It's not that they want all those things for free. They're perfectly willing to pay for those things. It's all the other bull**** that our tax money is wasted on that they don't want to have to pay for.

    They're not protesting higher taxes. They're protesting a stupid state government that chose to raise taxes, vice explore ways to increase tax revenue without raising taxes. Bascially, it was laziness on the part of the state government, because raising the tax rate was the easy thing to do.

  9. #59
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    Re: Targets of Liberal Tax Mania Vote with Their Feet

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the rich should band together and crush the parasites
    I would gladly join them as a middle-classer.
    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." -Thomas Sowell

  10. #60
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    Re: Targets of Liberal Tax Mania Vote with Their Feet

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    So if states were removed here, you'd move to another country that has a national government and no states... That makes total sense?
    A lot of it has to do with size.

    If the United States was run as the Founders intended, we would actually be like the Eurozone, albeit with much more personal and economic liberty.

    Think about it, most of our states are bigger than the European states. Big enough to be their own countries. Yet our federal government has more control over them than the EU central authority has over the European states. Both systems were created by compact theory. Of course, the primary difference is culturally the U.S. is much more united, though that has only happened over time.
    Last edited by Bigfoot 88; 07-12-12 at 05:16 PM.
    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." -Thomas Sowell

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