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Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

justabubba said:
but let's say his property was entirely within building code compliance
would you still believe it right to disallow his Bible study groups because of the crowd of cars and people it attracted to the community?
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What kind of group is entirely irrelevant. If what he's doing violates laws, it ought to be stopped.
 
Michael Salman has been a problem for his neighbours for some time

Here's a 2008 article, lengthy with a few facts that some folks haven't bothered to investigate for themselves. Some seem to prefer jumping on whatever their hobbyhorse might be whether related to a topic or not.

Michael Salman wants to build a church in his backyard. His neighbors aren't buying it

The real problem is that Salman is intent on building a church in his own backyard — and not just any church, but a 4,200-square-foot building that will sit only a few feet from his neighbor's property line.

The North Glen Square neighborhood is just off the I-17, only blocks from the busy strip malls of Northern and Glendale avenues. But it feels worlds away.

North of Orangewood Avenue, 31st Avenue narrows to two tiny lanes. Here, the houses are mostly 30-year-old ranches with a lived-in grace, some of them quite large. (Michael Salman's, for example, is a sprawling 3,147 square feet, with a five-car garage.)

From the beginning, neighbors say, the Salmans were upfront about their faith ... But then Salman announced that he was planning to build a church right there in his backyard. He talked about not just Sunday services, but weeknight Bible studies, a workout room and basketball court, even a Christian day care center.
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April 15, 2011
Pastor Michael Salman Files Federal Complaint Over Right to Hold Backyard Church Services; Phoenix Says Structure Violates Codes

April 20, 2011
Michael Salman's Fight Over Backyard Church Services Fails to Impress Federal Judge; Restraining Order Against City of Phoenix Denied

This last one is funny June 2012
Pastor Michael Salman Reports to Jail Over Phoenix Home-Worship Flap, but Gets Turned Away
Salman is also the owner of Mighty Mike's Burgers in Phoenix, and he and his wife, Suzanne, run a credit-card processing company, as well. All that's in addition to his volunteer work as a minister for the weekly home services and the Harvest Christian Fellowship.
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What type of book the man was reading is totally irrelevant. He might have been reading the Kamsutra for all I care.

He broke the Law. Period.
 
What else would you expect from a city like Phoenix? It's in Arizona, before long, they'll start eating their own.
 
mertex said:
What else would you expect from a city like Phoenix? It's in Arizona, before long, they'll start eating their own.
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:lamo:lamo:lamo
 
mertex said:
What else would you expect from a city like Phoenix? It's in Arizona, before long, they'll start eating their own.
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Yeah, how dare they actually enforce the law! :roll:
 
How you guys manage with 50 sets of laws for 50 states?
 
Cephus said:
Yeah, how dare they actually enforce the law! :roll:
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I think the law is totally correct. I just think it's ironic that this happens to be a situation where most religious right Republicans would be outraged over, but because they don't want AZ to appear any more nutty than it has in the recent past, they are inclined to go along with it. Some, of course, will see it as an attack on religion even though it's apparent that it's a violation of a residential code.
 
justabubba said:
but let's say his property was entirely within building code compliance
would you still believe it right to disallow his Bible study groups because of the crowd of cars and people it attracted to the community?
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Okay - quit making **** up. They're not disallowing his bible studies. He can have them. He just can't ****ing violate the law 67 times.
 
mertex said:
I think the law is totally correct. I just think it's ironic that this happens to be a situation where most religious right Republicans would be outraged over, but because they don't want AZ to appear any more nutty than it has in the recent past, they are inclined to go along with it. Some, of course, will see it as an attack on religion even though it's apparent that it's a violation of a residential code.
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It's a case where we have someone who is 100% in the wrong, has been violating the law for a long, long time now, and when he's finally carted off to jail, he plays the religion card in an attempt to justify his wrongful behavior. It doesn't matter what he was doing in his house. If it was a meeting of the NAACP, it wouldn't make it a racist matter, if he was meeting with a feminist group, it wouldn't make it a sexist matter, any more than it matters if he was holding a Bible study. It's not a religious matter, it's a BREAKING THE LAW MATTER!

That's all it is, he did it willingly, he deserves to rot in jail for a while.
 
Cephus said:
It's a case where we have someone who is 100% in the wrong, has been violating the law for a long, long time now, and when he's finally carted off to jail, he plays the religion card in an attempt to justify his wrongful behavior. It doesn't matter what he was doing in his house. If it was a meeting of the NAACP, it wouldn't make it a racist matter, if he was meeting with a feminist group, it wouldn't make it a sexist matter, any more than it matters if he was holding a Bible study. It's not a religious matter, it's a BREAKING THE LAW MATTER!

That's all it is, he did it willingly, he deserves to rot in jail for a while.
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Did you read my response to your previous post? Obviously you didn't.

I agree, although 60 days in jail would hardly cause anyone to rot.
 
mertex said:
I think the law is totally correct. I just think it's ironic that this happens to be a situation where most religious right Republicans would be outraged over, but because they don't want AZ to appear any more nutty than it has in the recent past, they are inclined to go along with it. Some, of course, will see it as an attack on religion even though it's apparent that it's a violation of a residential code.
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There has been very little about this in the mainstream media. It's not a big deal here. Even Arizona's right wing religious fanatics have largely ignored the issue. I mean you can only have so much fanaticism in the news before even the nutters ignore it.
 
poweRob said:
Well I hope it was the bastard that did church outside of his house with a megaphone behind my house when I lived in Phoenix. Just loved being woke up on my day off by the tinny sound of a megaphone screeching and spewing fire and brimstone sermons in Spanish with the volume as if he was standing IN my yard. It's such a wonderful way to wake up. Irritating ass.
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Obviously you weren't saved, you heathen bastard. ;) They should have prayed louder.
 
Hatuey said:
Okay - quit making **** up. They're not disallowing his bible studies. He can have them. He just can't ****ing violate the law 67 times.
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pull your panties back up
that question was prompted by some earlier posts from members who seem to side with the other residents only because of the abundance of cars and non-residents appearing in their community once a week
was trying to see if anyone was going to oppose someone hosting such a gathering on their own property - for whatever reason - only due to the increased traffic
 
poweRob said:
Well I hope it was the bastard that did church outside of his house with a megaphone behind my house when I lived in Phoenix. Just loved being woke up on my day off by the tinny sound of a megaphone screeching and spewing fire and brimstone sermons in Spanish with the volume as if he was standing IN my yard. It's such a wonderful way to wake up. Irritating ass.
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I know what you mean :( Sleep is important to me I resent that, I really do :(
 
Misterveritis said:
For building code violations? Awesome.
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For repeated violations for over 5 years? Absolutely. When you're told to stop and you refuse to do so, clearly the fines aren't working and you need to move up to something stronger.
 
Seems there's more to it than mentioned in the OP:
From The Arizona Republic

Phoenix preacher jailed in zoning dispute
Officials: Issue isn't religion, it's safety

The story is shocking on its face: a Phoenix man sentenced to 60 days in prison for holding Bible studies in his home for family and friends.

But Phoenix prosecutors, neighbors and a handful of judges have all agreed that the services he held were not just for family and friends -- they were for dozens of congregants at the Harvest Christian Community Church, and his sentence had nothing to do with what was going on inside the building. However, it had everything to do with the size of the structure and its lack of exit signs, fire sprinklers and doors.
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Cephus said:
For repeated violations for over 5 years? Absolutely. When you're told to stop and you refuse to do so, clearly the fines aren't working and you need to move up to something stronger.
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Everyone should ignore retarded codes that violate our rights.
 
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