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Thread: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

  1. #551
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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    More like, the law can't violate their right to practice.
    You didn't answer the question. Do you think it is okay to break the law as long as you are practicing religion?

    He was breaking the law, and you think that is okay as long as they are practicing religion?



    The code prohibited the home owner from exercising his First Amendment rights on his own property.
    You can have Bible Studies in your home (in most states), but you can't build a church on your property unless it is zoned as such.



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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Ah, so religious persecution is ok if it is sporadic?
    Hardly religious persecution, it was a egregious code violation. No different that having regular late night parties with loud music.

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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    I think stiff fines will dry up his coffers pretty quick, and if he can't pay he should go to jail.
    Done and done.

    Unfortunately some Federal judge has already ruled on the side of the company, so it will probably end up going to the Supreme Court, and we don't know if any of the Republican Justices will apply the law or just vote party-line. Once they rule in favor of the supposed victims, others will use the same tactics and a new pattern will be set.
    I don't think there's any way they can rule in favor of the "victims" because doing so basically means we have to throw out all zoning ordinances and building codes for anything religiously related, after all, they have a "religious right" to ignore any law they don't happen to like in the pursuit of their religious freedom.

    If they pull that, just flush the rest of the country down the toilet.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Done and done.



    I don't think there's any way they can rule in favor of the "victims" because doing so basically means we have to throw out all zoning ordinances and building codes for anything religiously related, after all, they have a "religious right" to ignore any law they don't happen to like in the pursuit of their religious freedom.

    If they pull that, just flush the rest of the country down the toilet.
    Amen, but who's to say what SCOTUS will come up with.



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  5. #555
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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    I honestly cannot see how this is debatable.

    The only attempt at defending the guy takes the form of ignoring what he is in trouble for and pointing to the fact that he was ding something religious as well.
    Imho, that's not exactly an actual defense.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    [You didn't answer the question. Do you think it is okay to break the law as long as you are practicing religion?]

    I'm just curious. Is there a law prohibiting the practice of religion? All I know is that the constitution which is the highest law of the land says;

    //Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;//

    This constitutional provision... does it mean to ristrict the free exercise of religion?

    ===

    [He was breaking the law, and you think that is okay as long as they are practicing religion?]
    What law did he violate?

    ===

    [You can have Bible Studies in your home (in most states), but you can't build a church on your property unless it is zoned as such.]
    Bible studies is allowed but did he make his property into a church?

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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Wish of Odz View Post
    I'm just curious. Is there a law prohibiting the practice of religion? All I know is that the constitution which is the highest law of the land says;

    //Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;//

    This constitutional provision... does it mean to ristrict the free exercise of religion?

    ===



    What law did he violate?

    ===



    Bible studies is allowed but did he make his property into a church?

    You really need to go and read the first few pages in this overly long thread. All your questions would be answered if you did that.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

  8. #558
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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Wish of Odz View Post
    I'm just curious. Is there a law prohibiting the practice of religion? All I know is that the constitution which is the highest law of the land says;

    //Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;//
    Perhaps the problem is in that you don't understand what it means. It means that Congress cannot make a law where one religion is given preference over another, and cannot make a law prohibiting the free exercise of religion.
    But nowhere in the Constitution does it say that zoning laws can be ignored and that people can build a church wherever they want (remember the outcry because Muslims wanted to build a community center in NY near ground zero and Republicans/conservatives were up in arms over it because they thought it was a mosque being built on ground zero?) So, you can't have it both ways.

    Congress is not making any laws favoring one religion over another and they certainly aren't making any laws prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The City, county, or state can enforce its laws against people that disobey zoning laws and other laws regardless of whether they are practicing religion or not. Got it?

    Zoning in the United States includes various land use laws falling under the police power rights of State governments and local governments to exercise authority over privately owned real property.

    This constitutional provision... does it mean to ristrict the free exercise of religion?
    The provision you are referring to is addressing Congress, that Congress cannot make a law which prohibits anyone from exercising their religion whatever that religion may be. And Congress is not even involved in this situation.


    What law did he violate?
    It is my understanding that he violated zoning laws. Safety is always prime when buildings/churches/houses are being built. There are restrictions and requirements that have to be met in regard to how the building is to be used. This guy was allowing many people to come to a home that was probably not built to hold that many people, and their safety was at risk. Also, when putting up a building you have to allow for adequate parking. Because they were meeting at his home, people were probably parking on the street and blocking access to firefighters in case of a fire. He was warned, as I understand, several times. So, he was not charged because he was holding religious meetings, but because he was putting people at risk, offending the neighborhood with traffic, and was not obeying the law.

    Bible studies is allowed but did he make his property into a church?
    Bible studies are usually comprised of several people, not like you would have at a church. And, according to some of the write ups, his bible studies were being run more like a church.



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Wish of Odz View Post
    //Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;//
    Wow, you actually think Congress put this guy in jail?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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