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Thread: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I agree, in principle, but this sounds like the guy pushed them to an extreme solution. What are they supposed to do in an extreme situation like this? Was the city supposed to be like a wimpy ineffective parent and say "Don't do that.", ad nauseum?

    Now that I have learned more about the details than the original article said, I have come to the conclusion that... at least in this case... the city was more patient and lenient than they needed to be.
    You make good comments. I think the next step should have been a legal direction to not use the building until the code violations had been made compliant. Then if he violated that he would be fined and spend time in jail for something more serious than building code violations.

    Do you really want a city to be able to put you in jail if you have building code violations? I do not. That is way too much power to give a city for these kinds of violations.

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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    I was on the fence at first but this guy clearly is trying to be a jerk and disobeying/disrespecing every rule and everyone
    I don't think your sprinkler analogy holds.
    Here is a better example:
    Guy opens a daycare in his home, without proper permits/zoning. Refuses to build a fence around home to keep kids in, refuses to have guardrail on balcony to keep kids from fallign/getting injured. Refuses to add a 2nd entrance to said daycare to avoid problems from fire etc. I could go on. Town cites him repeatedly, fines him, brings him to court. He refuses to follow the law or pay fines. What should the town do? Again not sure if jail was best option but I can't think of anything else other than repossesing his house that would have any effect on him.
    Uh, do these mythical children have mythical parents?

    Are you really for a city having the authority to jail you for building code violations?

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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    I hope this guy gets his "house" repossesed for being such a dick. i hope he loses every penny he has in court tryign to get it back!
    Nah I don't actually hope for all I'mnot that vindictive. But it is appearing less and less likely that this guy is a victim and more and more liek he is a jerk who refuses to obey the law. he coudl have created his "church" and followed all the regulations but he seems more interested in scamming the system than in god.
    Okay so are you leaning toward putting people into city jails if they are jerks?

    If he needs jail time shouldn't it be for something more serious that building code violations?

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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    More information from the city of Phoenix
    Official Site of the City of Phoenix - Fact Sheet Regarding the Michael Salman Case

    The Michael Salman court case is about building safety. Building and safety codes are in-place to protect the safety and welfare of all of our residents. Some of the relevant facts in this case include:

    A house of worship is allowed in any zoning district in the City of Phoenix
    The case is about the building that is used for regular assembly does not meet construction and fire code requirements for assembly
    All houses of worship in the City of Phoenix must conform to the same codes

    Mr. Salman had regular gatherings of up to 80 people. He held services twice a week and collected a tithe at the services. The building that he held services in had a dais and chairs were aligned in a pew formation. He held himself out as a being a church through the media (Harvest Christian Church) and claimed a church status for tax exemption purposes on his property.

    Due to the regular, reoccurring high vehicular traffic in this quiet residential neighborhood, neighbors repeatedly complained about the public assembly occurring on his property. Because of the multiple, reoccurring complaints, the City investigated the activity and discovered numerous building code violations primarily related to fire safety standards. Once apprised of these violations, the City could be held liable for not enforcing safety code requirements in the event anyone was injured on the premises. Prior to commencement of prosecution, Mr. Salman was asked, repeatedly, to comply with the safety codes of the City. He chose to ignore these requests for voluntary compliance prior to the commencement of any proceedings.

    Below is a summary of the case from the City's Law Department, including quotes from the relevant court judgments.
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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    That is a reasonable question. I suppose the next step should be to tell he he cannot use the room for meetings until it has been confirmed that he meets the building codes through a follow-up inspection. If he violates that direction (I assume there is an authority to do so under the government's safety interest) then he would be jailed for something more serious than building code violations.
    I assume he was told after each violation that he had to stop yet he didn't. Yes that's an assumption on my part Yes we don't have the whole story but Like I said before it seems like he was willfully disregarding the city codes. Your scenario is still putting him in jail for violating regulations and in fact it may have happened similar to that, I don't know. It is possible that given the whole story I would find the town at fault, and as I said I'm not sure jail would be best option but it seems that the town tried but he refused to be reasonable.
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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Okay so are you leaning toward putting people into city jails if they are jerks?

    If he needs jail time shouldn't it be for something more serious that building code violations?
    No I am not saying peopel should be jailed for being jerks I said this guy was being a jerk because it seems he was willfully disregarding the city codes and pissing off his neighbors and REFUSING TO OBEY THE LAW. What would you do with someone who refuses to obey the law? How many violations would he have to recieve before they go something stronger?
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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I guess you're resorting to ad homs because even you realize that your argument has been pwned by me
    What argument did you raise? I didn't see one. You're not the only person who likes to ridicule low income people.

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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    No I am not saying peopel should be jailed for being jerks I said this guy was being a jerk because it seems he was willfully disregarding the city codes and pissing off his neighbors and REFUSING TO OBEY THE LAW. What would you do with someone who refuses to obey the law? How many violations would he have to recieve before they go something stronger?

    Like I've said, the government wouldn't tolerate a law breaker like MLK Jr who not only refused to obey the law but openly called for people to violate laws en mass. White people probably hated him more than that hate this guy, but back then government to weak to stop law breakers who refuse to comply with local laws. Local officers should have written every marcher violating ordinances against public gatherings without a permit a separate ticket for each and every block they walked, plus a ticket each for every jaywalking for every block, and a ticket for impeding traffic for every block, and a ticket for disobeying officers for every block, and a ticket for disorderly conduct for every block. At least 40 to 60 tickets each, so they could then order them to stay within the own community and report all their activities for years as a condition of probation.

    WE MUST NOT TOLERATE PEOPLE VIOLATING LOCAL ORDINANCES! Especially zoning ordinances that say how many people you can allow in your home and why you allow them. Permission to go into someone else's home should require a permit and prior government permission anyway.

    Its like that malcontent Rosa Parks breaking local ordinances. The city only wrote her ONE ticket. What whimps! They should have written at least 30 or 50. That's the way to deal with law breakers who violate local ordinances. LAW BREAKERS REFUSING TO FOLLOW LOCAL ORDINANCES MUST BE STOPPED, PUNISHED, MONITORED AND CONTROLLED!!!

    Besides, no one wants to live around anyone who has a shack in his backyard. That's really bad for property values and maintaining real estate property values of LAND a person OWNS is the most fundamental of all human and civil rights bare none.
    Last edited by joko104; 07-12-12 at 11:37 PM.

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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Do you really want a city to be able to put you in jail if you have building code violations?
    If one flaunts in their face and continues to violate code, then yes.

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    Re: Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    What argument did you raise? I didn't see one. You're not the only person who likes to ridicule low income people.
    Disingenousity is as big a fail as your ad homs were
    Last edited by sangha; 07-12-12 at 11:43 PM.
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    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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