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Taliban shoot woman 9 times in public execution as men cheer

Also bear in mind that Dhimmitude was a protected status exempting Christians and Jews from military conscription and the taxes that Muslims had to pay.


While I agree the dhimmi system was rather tolerent for it's time, especially compared to what was going on in europe, it hardly presented some modern, enlightened view of other monastic religions (and the treatment of polytheists is a whole different matter)
the people of the book, or scriptuaries, are the jews, sabians, and christians who believed in Allah butm according to muslim creed, who distorted their scriptures and fell in Allah's disfavor. When allah sent the last of his prophets to call them to the truth, they accepted belief in allah, but not his prophet or the quran. hence the scriptuaries like the polytheists must be punished; but since they believed in Allah, they are only partially liable to punishment

war and peace in the law of islam, Majid Khadduri, pge 80
 
While I agree the dhimmi system was rather tolerent for it's time, especially compared to what was going on in europe, it hardly presented some modern, enlightened view of other monastic religions (and the treatment of polytheists is a whole different matter)0

Sure its not tolerant attal by todays standards but thats why it should be taken in historical context when it comes to evaluating which religion is inherently more this that and the other (hence my continued babbling on about Francoist Spain and Ustasha controlled Croatia, which where far more backwards and bloodthirsty and far more recent).
 
No it started when feudal landlords and allied fundamentalists tried to overthrow the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan with the help of the C.I.A

You're talking about the 1930's uprising?
To be sure, mullahs had mobalized opposition to the govt in Kabul in the past. In the 1920's they spearheaded resistence against King Amanullah's attempts to strengthen the power of the central govtthrough laws limiting clerical authority , imposing new taxes, enforcing conscriptions, compelling the adoption of western style hats and suits, and introducing legal changes relating to the family, marriage, and the unveiling of women. During the same period, many also opposed the education of girls and the appreence of women outside the home

the taliban and the crisis of Afghanistan, pge 36

the same author on the civil war in the 70's
Paradoxically, the more dangerous threat to the Afghan monarchy came from the left, and it was the Afghan Marxists who, in turn, triggered the emergence of a powerful clerical opposition. The Marxists resort to violence in 1978 following their seizure of power in April provoked resistence led by Muslims leaders. From 1978 they challanged the policies of the communists, who like the afghan modernists reformers of the 1920's, had made the transformation of the status of women a central part of their program of state intervention in Afghan society. Clerics defended traditional marriage practices targeted by the regime (such as the payment of a compensation to the bride's family) and resisted the regime's frequintly violent campaign against illiteracy, which also focused on women. For their part, women in kabul and elsewhere joined the resistence; in places like kabul many adopted the veil as a symbol of their opposition to the new govt.

ibid, page 37
 
Sure its not tolerant attal by todays standards but thats why it should be taken in historical context when it comes to evaluating which religion is inherently more this that and the other (hence my continued babbling on about Francoist Spain and Ustasha controlled Croatia, which where far more backwards and bloodthirsty and far more recent).

I completely agree. I just get annoyed when some people try to run with the above and declare it as a truly tolerant society (i doubt anyone can even claim such today).
 
You're talking about the 1930's uprising?

the taliban and the crisis of Afghanistan, pge 36

the same author on the civil war in the 70's

ibid, page 37

I was thinking more Mujahideen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia but either way the fundamentalism they represent is not inherent to Afganistan as a country (Again a wine industry flourished in Afganistan for milienia) the Mujahideen/Taliban only came to power by pissing less people off then the Soviets. (As is the case today) Its not Sweden by any stretch of the imagination but Afghanistan has a far more tolerant history then many would presume.
 
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the above book I mentioned has an awesome essay in it on the ability of the taliban to spread and take over afghanistan, despite of the failures of people like Hekmatyar. I need to reread it before I feel comfortable discussing it, but I think the general idea was hekmatyar was a child of the saudis, while the taliban offered a more Pashtun friendly view of things (there was also lots of discussion on how they approached recruiting, surrenders, and defections, and the fact they offered stability, as well)
 
The orthodoxy of Islam is generally unreformed and this remains a serious problem since it is less amenable to liberalization and reform. Why? Because how do you reform a divinely directed legal code? Anyways as I said before I think it is a problem to try and equivocate because it obscures very real and very significant problems and discussions.

doesn't the deobondi represent a reform movement?
 
Show me an example of this prior to the mujaheddin uprising. Afghanistan was once a net exporter of wine.

Every time you say "Islam is a peaceful religion" a fairy gets honor killed.



Presumably if honor killings had majority support this would be reflected electorally. Why do you think so few people in Pakistan and Bangladesh vote for Jamat?



I dont have to show you evidence of anything in the past...I live in today
 
I dont have to show you evidence of anything in the past...I live in today

I like the cut of your jib, sailor
 
I usually just ignore you, but you are aware, even if your assumption about a majority is correct (I personal feel you are wrong), that doesn't necessarily dictate that every Muslim you encounter is a closet jihadi?
I appreciate your honesty. What percentage of Muslims do you believe support expanding the reach of Islam through whatever means are available, including force? Am I wrong if it is only 90%? Or 80% or 70%?

Define closet jihadi.
 
another sad chapter in a messed up country, but given what we have seen over the last 10 years not really a shock or even worthy of our comments at this point
 
Firstly of course there were difficulties and abject failures when it came to instituting and securing the new democracy in Iraq. But my contention is that the US has created new terrorists. There is a great deal of sociological and psychological evidence that has been assembled that indicates that those who resort to internationalist terrorism and suicide bombings come from a limited pool, and that one of the reasons we ended up successful after the Surge was because we had exhausted the supply of recruits to those organizations.
Recruitment numbers and amount of attacks wish to say otherwise.

Larry Schweikart has a good book on this, and I'll also provide a report to the LoC: http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/pdf-files/Soc_Psych_of_Terrorism.pdf.
I agree that there are many reasons "why" people become terrorists, but recruitment numbers skyrocketed after we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq and become cesspool for terrorist recruitment and terrorist attacks.

Secondly the point is logical in that as we inflict greater casualties we reduce the recruitment pool.
Not really.
War is hell. People see people die, when there loved ones die, when their friends, neighbors etc die those causalities are used as a recruitment tool and propaganda tool and people become attracted to the use of terror and anything that says what they are doing is justified because the people who did this killed x,y,z

Thirdly with regard to the insurgent activity in Iraq this is decoupled from the terrorist point, as it deals with sectarian, irredentist, and other domestic political actors.
Well Iraq is not a terrorist hotspot

As for Bin Laden we have done a fantastic job of crippling his organization and driving Islamist groups back on virtually all fronts, international Islamist terrorism has certainly been on the decline in terms of activities, existing networks, operatives, etc.
Fantastic is questionable sense all they have done is just reloacated to Pakistan.
 
Does it matter?
Are you kidding me. When your at "war with terror" i hope it would matter if we are creating more ****ing terrorists.

There are more pirates in Somalia too. Are you proposing capitulation instead of resolve?
What the hell are you talking about now?

Do you prefer murder over justice and freedom?
I prefer we stop ****ing creating terrorists. Do i only have two choices here. Is this the stupid "either you are with us or you are with the terrorists"? Fighting terror with terror does not work.
 
I'm curious as to if you get offended when there's a thread casting Christians in a negative light. I would place my bet on a "no" answer.

I'm a Christian, so of course I do. Not even close to the same thing, since Christians don't face even near the amount of bigotry as Muslims have to endure. I know first hand, because I was a Muslim for quite a while.
 
Are you kidding me. When your at "war with terror" i hope it would matter if we are creating more ****ing terrorists.
So are you proposing that we stay at home and absorb the attacks?

What the hell are you talking about now?
In addition to countering terrorists we are also countering pirates. And yet there are more pirates now than when we started. Should we capitulate anytime there are difficulties?

I prefer we stop ****ing creating terrorists. Do i only have two choices here. Is this the stupid "either you are with us or you are with the terrorists"? Fighting terror with terror does not work.
Just admit it. You do prefer murder of American citizens over justice. Do you actually believe we are fighting terror with terror? Do you believe we are targeting civilians for murder in order to achieve a political effect?

Or do you just object to killing terrorists everywhere we find them?
 

Let's start with failed states. Do you believe a nation under attack by terrorists is a failed state? Should we accept Noam Chomsky's word for it?
Second, if the second article is true who should we blame for the mess? Who declared victory and left? Wasn't it the butt-kissing, always bowing one term Marxist flexible president Barrack Hussein Obama?
And third, your third article is noting more than a rehash of the leftist talking points.

Get real yourself.
 
So are you proposing that we stay at home and absorb the attacks?
Going to war in foreign countries is not how you combat terrorism. War creates more terrorist. And if we are suposedly at a "war on terror" i think creating more terrorists is not very smart. Do you concur? Do you understand?
I propose our national security agencies handle that problems (in which they have)

In addition to countering terrorists we are also countering pirates. And yet there are more pirates now than when we started. Should we capitulate anytime there are difficulties?
You are countering a rag tad bunch of pirates who are from a country that does not have a water police agency or no maritime laws around their waters and no boats or agencies to stop these dumping into their waters and the illegal fishing.
Somali Pirates Tell Their Side | The Beacon: Oceana's Blog



Just admit it. You do prefer murder of American citizens over justice.
:shock:
Are you ****ing serious.

Do you actually believe we are fighting terror with terror?
Yes.

Do you believe we are targeting civilians for murder in order to achieve a political effect?
We have targeted civilian populations. Purposely or not... Look up the definition of "terror": The use of such fear to intimidate people, esp. for political reasons


Or do you just object to killing terrorists everywhere we find them?
Your a hack plain and simple.
 
Let's start with failed states. Do you believe a nation under attack by terrorists is a failed state?
I believe a unstable "democracy", violence everyday via terrorism, a failed government is a failed state

Should we accept Noam Chomsky's word for it?
Why the hell is Noam Chomsky in this debate?


Second, if the second article is true who should we blame for the mess? Who declared victory and left? Wasn't it the butt-kissing, always bowing one term Marxist flexible president Barrack Hussein Obama?
Yes and the Iraqis didnt want us to leave right? Were they not calling for us to leave? What would happen if the US stayed? Take Vietnam for example we stayed there for a **** ton longer and look nothing ****ing changed just more and more American lives for no reason

And third, your third article is noting more than a rehash of the leftist talking points.

Get real yourself.
:doh
Any proof of sources on that or is it just because it presents facts and analysis by political scientists that articulate conclusions that go against your very narrow way of viewing the world and thinking?
 
Going to war in foreign countries is not how you combat terrorism. War creates more terrorist. And if we are suposedly at a "war on terror" i think creating more terrorists is not very smart. Do you concur? Do you understand?
I propose our national security agencies handle that problems (in which they have)
I see. Are you an expert then on counter-terrorism? Or have you just read a leftist blog or two?

You are countering a rag tad bunch of pirates who are from a country that does not have a water police agency or no maritime laws around their waters and no boats or agencies to stop these dumping into their waters and the illegal fishing.
Somali Pirates Tell Their Side | The Beacon: Oceana's Blog
I see. You cannot see how your argument that we are creating more by combating them might apply to pirates?

:shock:
Are you ****ing serious.
What are you suggesting then? We are fighting in Afghanistan until the one term Marxist withdraws our troops because the Taliban allowed Al Queda sanctuary. And you oppose it. Thousands of Americans were pulverized, burned up, blown out of buildings to fall to their deaths, and crushed. What would you do?

We have targeted civilian populations. Purposely or not... Look up the definition of "terror": The use of such fear to intimidate people, esp. for political reasons
You look up the definition. You need it far more than I do. And if you really believe the US troops are committing crimes why aren't you reporting them and insisting on trials?

Your a hack plain and simple.
It is true that I am simple. I despise socialists, Marxists, Communists, liberals and progressives. You are all dangerous to our liberties when you come into power.
 
I believe a unstable "democracy", violence everyday via terrorism, a failed government is a failed state
So your argument is that if a state is under attack it is a failed state. Gotcha.

Why the hell is Noam Chomsky in this debate?
The article you referenced begins by saying it is based on Noam Chomsky's assumptions about failed states.

Yes and the Iraqis didnt want us to leave right? Were they not calling for us to leave? What would happen if the US stayed? Take Vietnam for example we stayed there for a **** ton longer and look nothing ****ing changed just more and more American lives for no reason
The one term Marxist flexible president Barrack Hussein Obama failed at fundamental foreign policy. Our presence provided stability. Our absence has emboldened our enemies.

:doh
Any proof of sources on that or is it just because it presents facts and analysis by political scientists that articulate conclusions that go against your very narrow way of viewing the world and thinking?
I used to read Foreign Policy, the printed quarterly journal regularly when I was still a lieutenant in the Army. I was smart but not wise. Once I realized that most of the articles were written by left-wing, Anti-American intellectuals, I grew wiser and stopped reading it.

It is still largely left wing, anti-American drivel. But thank you nonetheless.
 
I see. Are you an expert then on counter-terrorism?
Not its called a opinion because i based it off the current wars creating more terrorists.
But these experts seem to agree with me that our policies are creating more terrorists:
Drone attacks create terrorist safe havens, warns former CIA official | World news | guardian.co.uk
War on Terror May Breed More Terrorism, Experts Tell Madrid Summit
Richard A. Clarke -- Cheney and Rice Remember 9/11. I Do, Too.

Interesting aint it?
Do they "enjoy seeing Americans die" as supposedly as i do?

Or have you just read a leftist blog or two?

You look up the definition. You need it far more than I do.
I just did: "The use of such fear to intimidate people, esp. for political reasons"

And if you really believe the US troops are committing crimes why aren't you reporting them and insisting on trials?
I never stated they are committing crimes.

What are you suggesting then?

If you could read I already stated what i suggest we do.

We are fighting in Afghanistan until the one term Marxist withdraws our troops because the Taliban allowed Al Queda sanctuary.
Dear god you have nothing to contribute to this debate

And you oppose it. Thousands of Americans were pulverized, burned up, blown out of buildings to fall to their deaths, and crushed. What would you do?
Not invade a country.


It is true that I am simple. I despise socialists, Marxists, Communists, liberals and progressives. You are all dangerous to our liberties when you come into power.
:lamo
 
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