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Thread: Taliban shoot woman 9 times in public execution as men cheer

  1. #101
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    Re: Taliban shoot woman 9 times in public execution as men cheer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    A large aspect of interpretation is the ability to completely ignore, or totally reinvent, age old dogma. Not sure why anyone would try to ignore or dismiss that
    I believe what Lizzie is talking about is the life style that Islam by its nature (as Judaism would I might add were it not for historically divergent paths) is a juridical religion meant to define ones life in all spheres. Whether or not you quibble over a particular passage or interpretation is 'irrelevant' when compared to the entire lifestyle. Do I have that right?

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    Re: Taliban shoot woman 9 times in public execution as men cheer

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    Oh I am NO expert on Afghanistan.. All Islam is fundamental.. see Five Pillars of Islam.. The meaning is different from Christian or Western notions of "fundamentalism"...

    Islam is not... ummm.. monolithic.. and many fundamentalists are also moderate.

    You hear alot about Wahhabis, but Wahhabi is NOT a sect.. its like calling someone a Calvinist or a Unitarian.. They choose to simplify.. It was reaction against the innovations introduced during the Ottoman Empire.

    Most "Wahhabis" are not stupid guys with scraggly beards and dirty thobes who routinely oppress women.

    It has taken me most of a lifetime to come to these conclusions.. ( I am Christian) and I am just not good at explaining. The last conversation I had with a young Saudi.. a couple of hours.. was about the Muslim view of Jesus and human rights. Fascinating to me.

    And when we wrapped it up.. He said, "Remember.. you cannot talk to one Muslim and know Islam."
    Yes, they also deeply dislike the term. When prompted they'll say if you need a name to call them Unitarian.

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    Re: Taliban shoot woman 9 times in public execution as men cheer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    A large aspect of interpretation is the ability to completely ignore, or totally reinvent, age old dogma. Not sure why anyone would try to ignore or dismiss that
    Well, if you look around at the majority of Muslims in western culture, it's pretty obvious that they don't leave the dress codes and marriage codes up to interpretation.

    When I say "certain passages", I am referring to passages which merely tell a story, not to commandments.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Taliban shoot woman 9 times in public execution as men cheer

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Yes, they also deeply dislike the term. When prompted they'll say if you need a name to call them Unitarian.
    You are right .. they do object to the term.. I have just enjoyed that part of the world.. and maybe I just got used to them.. Most certainly I was always safe and treated with respect.

    So its like when in Capri..............

    You know.. Live and let live.

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    Re: Taliban shoot woman 9 times in public execution as men cheer

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I believe what Lizzie is talking about is the life style that Islam by its nature (as Judaism would I might add were it not for historically divergent paths) is a juridical religion meant to define ones life in all spheres. Whether or not you quibble over a particular passage or interpretation is 'irrelevant' when compared to the entire lifestyle. Do I have that right?
    Even then, that can be totally removed from the religion, and would say that most Islamic immigrants to the states have managed to do so (my general impression is that they are educated professionals). But yes, Islam is rather expansive of it's view concerning the proper role of religion

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    Re: Taliban shoot woman 9 times in public execution as men cheer

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Well, if you look around at the majority of Muslims in western culture, it's pretty obvious that they don't leave the dress codes and marriage codes up to interpretation.

    When I say "certain passages", I am referring to passages which merely tell a story, not to commandments.
    most of the muslims I know in the states embrace a pretty western lifestyle, and probably have views most similar to moderate, family, concervatives

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    Re: Taliban shoot woman 9 times in public execution as men cheer

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I believe what Lizzie is talking about is the life style that Islam by its nature (as Judaism would I might add were it not for historically divergent paths) is a juridical religion meant to define ones life in all spheres. Whether or not you quibble over a particular passage or interpretation is 'irrelevant' when compared to the entire lifestyle. Do I have that right?
    Yes, pretty much on the mark. Compare the same issue in Christianity. The Bible has the ten commandments, which are essentially the "law", as believed to have been handed down by God. They are pretty generally good tenets to live by, in a free society. Honor thy mother and thy father, don't kill, steal, take the name of thy God in vain, worship no idols, etc.............
    These are pretty good rules for living in just about any society.

    Compare that to a religious text which tells you how to control every minute detail of your personal appearance, who you should marry, whom you should avoid contact with, and other such personal details, and these aren't really conducive to interpretation, and are infact, at odds with democratic principles.

    You may read a story about a great warrior, and interpret the meaning of that story, as it is often symbolic in nature, much as many of the Bible stories about wars and personal struggles.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Taliban shoot woman 9 times in public execution as men cheer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    most of the muslims I know in the states embrace a pretty western lifestyle, and probably have views most similar to moderate, family, concervatives
    They do have a western lifestyle on the surface, and with regards to many social activities, but they are still pretty rigorous with regard to personal relationships and dress. It doesn't bother me, as I have several Muslim friends and professional associates, but there is no doubt a cultural barrier present, and certain things that are never discussed or shared.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Taliban shoot woman 9 times in public execution as men cheer

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Yes, pretty much on the mark. Compare the same issue in Christianity. The Bible has the ten commandments, which are essentially the "law", as believed to have been handed down by God. They are pretty generally good tenets to live by, in a free society. Honor thy mother and thy father, don't kill, steal, take the name of thy God in vain, worship no idols, etc.............
    These are pretty good rules for living in just about any society.

    Compare that to a religious text which tells you how to control every minute detail of your personal appearance, who you should marry, whom you should avoid contact with, and other such personal details, and these aren't really conducive to interpretation, and are infact, at odds with democratic principles.

    You may read a story about a great warrior, and interpret the meaning of that story, as it is often symbolic in nature, much as many of the Bible stories about wars and personal struggles.
    I understand your point about the language being rather direct, I'm just pointing out there is really nothing stopping someone from simply tossing those elements on the trash heap, or interpreting them in completely new ways. An example of the later would be Ibn Hudhayl's views on the jihad.

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    Re: Taliban shoot woman 9 times in public execution as men cheer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I understand your point about the language being rather direct, I'm just pointing out there is really nothing stopping someone from simply tossing those elements on the trash heap, or interpreting them in completely new ways. An example of the later would be Ibn Hudhayl's views on the jihad.
    In one word: fear.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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