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California Senate vote keeps bullet train alive(edited)

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Construction to begin in Central Valley.

By Chris Megerian and Ralph Vartabedian, Los Angeles Times
July 6, 2012, 6:23 p.m.

SACRAMENTO — The state Senate authorized initial funding for California's high-speed rail project, handing a victory to Gov. Jerry Brown and the Obama administration, which have been pushing hard for the first-in-the-nation bullet train.

It is unclear when construction on the largest infrastructure project in the country can begin; the state still needs a series of regulatory approvals to start the first 130 miles of track in the Central Valley. The plan also faces lawsuits by agriculture interests and potential opposition by major freight railroads.

But proponents rejoiced at Friday's narrow 21-16 vote, which allocates roughly $8 billion for the first segment of track and related transportation projects. Barring insurmountable obstacles, Californians eventually will be able to ride a bullet train — traveling as fast as 220 mph — between Los Angeles and San Francisco rather than fly or drive on aging highways.


California Senate vote keeps bullet train alive - latimes.com
 
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Re: California bullet train still a go

California is billions of dollars in debt and they want to build a segment that costs 8 billion. Do these clowns in California realize that they are in debt?
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

$14 billion deficit.

where do they plan on getting the money for this?

selling sand?
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

California is billions of dollars in debt and they want to build a segment that costs 8 billion. Do these clowns in California realize that they are in debt?
As with so many people, their idea of budgeting and fiscal responsibility is to spend like crack whores and count on a rich uncle to die and bail them out or hit the lottery. Apparently they remain unfazed at maintaining the debt and operating cost of their current mass transport system and see doubling down as a solution to all their ills...
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

Insanity. Sadly, Cali continues its march off the cliff. This project will do nothing but generate red ink. It will NEVER be a cash generator for the state. Disgustingly, the California legislature and Governor choose pressure from DC Democrats and special interests over the citizens of California.

Whats even more ironic, this is coming as the state continues to fire teachers and other state employees. Doubt you'll see the unions massing at the statehouse anytime soon.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

Insanity. Sadly, Cali continues its march off the cliff. This project will do nothing but generate red ink. It will NEVER be a cash generator for the state. Disgustingly, the California legislature and Governor choose pressure from DC Democrats and special interests over the citizens of California.

Whats even more ironic, this is coming as the state continues to fire teachers and other state employees. Doubt you'll see the unions massing at the statehouse anytime soon.

I would not worry about California. They will get Federal dollars under the Obama guise of giving money to states for teachers, firefighters and cops. When anyone with half a brain understands that money sent to states is fungible and can be used/ wasted as the state wants.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

Having travel by the shinkansen in Japan, its a great way to travel. We cannot pretend that we are going to start in the direction of getting away from automobiles while bashing forward looking projects like this at the same time.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

budget $4.6 billion (in long term low interest bonds) to be able to inject $7.9 billion into a down economy
and wind up with a state of the art mass transit system
seems like a smart idea
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

Having travel by the shinkansen in Japan, its a great way to travel. We cannot pretend that we are going to start in the direction of getting away from automobiles while bashing forward looking projects like this at the same time.

A forward looking project is not something that puts you further into the red and more into the red to maintain it each year.If California was not in massive debt and had money to spare,could make a profit from it then it would be a good project.
 
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Re: California bullet train still a go

405+Freeway-Los+Angeles+Times.jpg

i think we might be doing it wrong.
 

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Re: California bullet train still a go

budget $4.6 billion (in long term low interest bonds) to be able to inject $7.9 billion into a down economy
and wind up with a state of the art mass transit system
seems like a smart idea

It costs 8 billion just to build that one segment and who knows how much it will cost in maintenance, the long term cost of paying employees to run it. Your not looking at the whole picture.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

expected from california.

after all yucca valley ca spent 1 million dollars on a welcome center,but the cities budget was only 700k.to top it off that city is no where near any border,and not even a main road(unless your heading to lake havasu,then highway 62 is used).after about a year of zero visitors the city tried to sell it off,but no one was going to pay 1million for a building the size of a one bedroom studio apt.

now take that logic and apply it across the entire state.this is the type of state that would spend millions on building docs in landlocked cities and build a bridge across a lake just so the ducks would have a way to get across:shock:
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

It costs 8 billion just to build that one segment and who knows how much it will cost in maintenance, the long term cost of paying employees to run it. Your not looking at the whole picture.


certainly i am
i am looking at the employees who will construct it
the employees who will fabricate it
the land owners who will enjoy the payments for the land required to situate it
the citizens and tourists of cali who will ride it
the employees who will maintain it
the employees who will operate it
and then we add the government spending multiplier, likely being somewhere between 0.8 and 1.2 X the government contribution to the project
unlike during the bubble, this is a time when government should want to accelerate the velocity of money and this project - assuming it meets a legitimate transportation demand - appears to meet that economic criterion
http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/faculty/rebelo/htm/multiplier.pdf
http://www.columbia.edu/~mw2230/G_ASSA.pdf
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

budget $4.6 billion (in long term low interest bonds) to be able to inject $7.9 billion into a down economy
and wind up with a state of the art mass transit system
seems like a smart idea


If we want to be realistic then we know that this is just a small down payment of the total cost of a project which will cost upwards of $100 billion. This section as I understand it will not be able to move many people at all. I think you know this but refuse rational debate and instead prefer ideological silliness.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

Jeff Gorell | California Government "Waste Watchers"

heres an example of californias waste,it lists some from 6 milion dollars paid by the state for custom wait/hold tones.also to note 177 million in state vehicles that cant be found.how anyone can trust a state that manages to let state employees lose 117 million worth of govt vehicles.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

certainly i am
i am looking at the employees who will construct it
the employees who will fabricate it
the land owners who will enjoy the payments for the land required to situate it
the citizens and tourists of cali who will ride it
the employees who will maintain it
the employees who will operate it
and then we add the government spending multiplier, likely being somewhere between 0.8 and 1.2 X the government contribution to the project
unlike during the bubble, this is a time when government should want to accelerate the velocity of money and this project - assuming it meets a legitimate transportation demand - appears to meet that economic criterion
http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/faculty/rebelo/htm/multiplier.pdf
http://www.columbia.edu/~mw2230/G_ASSA.pdf

It still costs 8 billion just for that one segment and it will still cost to maintain and operate it.It will still hemorrhage money in a state that is already billions of dollars in debt. The costs do not justify it.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

A forward looking project is not something that puts you further into the red and more into the red to maintain it each year.If California was not in massive debt and had money to spare,could make a profit from it then it would be a good project.

As far as I am aware, such projects rarely are expected to make a profit in other countries. They are considered as necessities for the public good.

This on the Japanese shinkansen which is held up as the model of efficiency and service:

Economics
The Shinkansen has had a significant effect on Japan's business, economy, society, environment and culture.[10] The time savings alone from switching from a conventional to a high-speed network have been estimated at 400 million hours, an economic impact of ¥500 billion per year.[10] Shinkansen connectivity has rejuvenated rural towns such as Kakegawa that would otherwise be too distant from major cities.[10]
However, the vast construction costs of the Shinkansen network, particularly the later, less profitable lines often driven more by political interference than actual demand, imposed vast debt servicing costs on JNR that, by 1971, made JNR unprofitable even before depreciation.[17] JNR's Shinkansen-fueled debt eventually ballooned to ¥28 trillion and was an instrumental factor in the company's eventual privatization and breakup.[17] The privatized JRs eventually paid a total of only ¥9.2 trillion to acquire JNR's Shinkansen network
 
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Re: California bullet train still a go

certainly i am
i am looking at the employees who will construct it
the employees who will fabricate it
the land owners who will enjoy the payments for the land required to situate it
the citizens and tourists of cali who will ride it
the employees who will maintain it
the employees who will operate it
and then we add the government spending multiplier, likely being somewhere between 0.8 and 1.2 X the government contribution to the project
unlike during the bubble, this is a time when government should want to accelerate the velocity of money and this project - assuming it meets a legitimate transportation demand - appears to meet that economic criterion
http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/faculty/rebelo/htm/multiplier.pdf
http://www.columbia.edu/~mw2230/G_ASSA.pdf

Amtrak, A Giant Money Pit | Government Waste, Fraud and Abuse

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

seems to be just what california is doing,anyone remember the 40 years of failure for amtrak???????????
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

View attachment 67130608

i think we might be doing it wrong.

I'm sure we're doing it wrong, as your top picture illustrates. Anyone who has driven around this state very much has seen sights like that all too many times.

The problems are:
1. There is no money to build high speed rail,
2. High speed rail will be more of an alternative to air travel than to automobiles,
3. They're building the thing between two dusty little farm towns in the Central Valley instead of where there might actually be some ridership.

So, we've been doing it wrong, and it looks like we're continuing to do it wrong.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

As far as I am aware, such projects rarely are expected to make a profit in other countries.

Aren't those countries in debt too?


They are considered as necessities for the public good.

If they cost more to construct,maintain and operate then what they bring in, then they are not for the public good.Especially something that costs billions of dollars. I know the green with envy lib-tard mantra is to just tax the living hell out of the rich but even that money will disappear assuming those tax hikes don't chase the rich away.
 
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Re: California bullet train still a go

spoken like someone who has never enjoyed the ability to travel the DC area using its metro mass transit system

The Washington DC Metro is amazing. I love using it when I am in town. I wish every city had something like that.

If every single transportation network, public road, street and highway was budgeted to make a profit or not be built, I suspect we would still be living on dirt.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

If we want to be realistic then we know that this is just a small down payment of the total cost of a project which will cost upwards of $100 billion. This section as I understand it will not be able to move many people at all. I think you know this but refuse rational debate and instead prefer ideological silliness.
this is when i know i have defeated someone in a debate. when they pretend to tell me what i know despite that i have said something which is contrary to their own - and in this instance, unsupported - opinion
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

View attachment 67130608

i think we might be doing it wrong.
Just how many of those trains do you think will be running on a rail at any given time? Mass transit is a great idea where properly used. In some areas it may even be worth the excessive expense. You really truly cant think light rail is going to be the answer to traffic gridlock in Ca...can you???
 
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