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Thread: California Senate vote keeps bullet train alive(edited)

  1. #11
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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    budget $4.6 billion (in long term low interest bonds) to be able to inject $7.9 billion into a down economy
    and wind up with a state of the art mass transit system
    seems like a smart idea
    It costs 8 billion just to build that one segment and who knows how much it will cost in maintenance, the long term cost of paying employees to run it. Your not looking at the whole picture.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    expected from california.

    after all yucca valley ca spent 1 million dollars on a welcome center,but the cities budget was only 700k.to top it off that city is no where near any border,and not even a main road(unless your heading to lake havasu,then highway 62 is used).after about a year of zero visitors the city tried to sell it off,but no one was going to pay 1million for a building the size of a one bedroom studio apt.

    now take that logic and apply it across the entire state.this is the type of state that would spend millions on building docs in landlocked cities and build a bridge across a lake just so the ducks would have a way to get across
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    Attachment 67130608

    i think we might be doing it wrong.
    What is wrong is living and working in a densely populated city.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    It costs 8 billion just to build that one segment and who knows how much it will cost in maintenance, the long term cost of paying employees to run it. Your not looking at the whole picture.

    certainly i am
    i am looking at the employees who will construct it
    the employees who will fabricate it
    the land owners who will enjoy the payments for the land required to situate it
    the citizens and tourists of cali who will ride it
    the employees who will maintain it
    the employees who will operate it
    and then we add the government spending multiplier, likely being somewhere between 0.8 and 1.2 X the government contribution to the project
    unlike during the bubble, this is a time when government should want to accelerate the velocity of money and this project - assuming it meets a legitimate transportation demand - appears to meet that economic criterion
    http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/...multiplier.pdf
    http://www.columbia.edu/~mw2230/G_ASSA.pdf
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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    budget $4.6 billion (in long term low interest bonds) to be able to inject $7.9 billion into a down economy
    and wind up with a state of the art mass transit system
    seems like a smart idea

    If we want to be realistic then we know that this is just a small down payment of the total cost of a project which will cost upwards of $100 billion. This section as I understand it will not be able to move many people at all. I think you know this but refuse rational debate and instead prefer ideological silliness.

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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Jeff Gorell | California Government "Waste Watchers"

    heres an example of californias waste,it lists some from 6 milion dollars paid by the state for custom wait/hold tones.also to note 177 million in state vehicles that cant be found.how anyone can trust a state that manages to let state employees lose 117 million worth of govt vehicles.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    certainly i am
    i am looking at the employees who will construct it
    the employees who will fabricate it
    the land owners who will enjoy the payments for the land required to situate it
    the citizens and tourists of cali who will ride it
    the employees who will maintain it
    the employees who will operate it
    and then we add the government spending multiplier, likely being somewhere between 0.8 and 1.2 X the government contribution to the project
    unlike during the bubble, this is a time when government should want to accelerate the velocity of money and this project - assuming it meets a legitimate transportation demand - appears to meet that economic criterion
    http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/...multiplier.pdf
    http://www.columbia.edu/~mw2230/G_ASSA.pdf
    It still costs 8 billion just for that one segment and it will still cost to maintain and operate it.It will still hemorrhage money in a state that is already billions of dollars in debt. The costs do not justify it.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    A forward looking project is not something that puts you further into the red and more into the red to maintain it each year.If California was not in massive debt and had money to spare,could make a profit from it then it would be a good project.
    As far as I am aware, such projects rarely are expected to make a profit in other countries. They are considered as necessities for the public good.

    This on the Japanese shinkansen which is held up as the model of efficiency and service:

    Economics
    The Shinkansen has had a significant effect on Japan's business, economy, society, environment and culture.[10] The time savings alone from switching from a conventional to a high-speed network have been estimated at 400 million hours, an economic impact of ¥500 billion per year.[10] Shinkansen connectivity has rejuvenated rural towns such as Kakegawa that would otherwise be too distant from major cities.[10]
    However, the vast construction costs of the Shinkansen network, particularly the later, less profitable lines often driven more by political interference than actual demand, imposed vast debt servicing costs on JNR that, by 1971, made JNR unprofitable even before depreciation.[17] JNR's Shinkansen-fueled debt eventually ballooned to ¥28 trillion and was an instrumental factor in the company's eventual privatization and breakup.[17] The privatized JRs eventually paid a total of only ¥9.2 trillion to acquire JNR's Shinkansen network
    Last edited by haymarket; 07-07-12 at 01:09 PM.
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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    certainly i am
    i am looking at the employees who will construct it
    the employees who will fabricate it
    the land owners who will enjoy the payments for the land required to situate it
    the citizens and tourists of cali who will ride it
    the employees who will maintain it
    the employees who will operate it
    and then we add the government spending multiplier, likely being somewhere between 0.8 and 1.2 X the government contribution to the project
    unlike during the bubble, this is a time when government should want to accelerate the velocity of money and this project - assuming it meets a legitimate transportation demand - appears to meet that economic criterion
    http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/...multiplier.pdf
    http://www.columbia.edu/~mw2230/G_ASSA.pdf
    Amtrak, A Giant Money Pit | Government Waste, Fraud and Abuse

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    seems to be just what california is doing,anyone remember the 40 years of failure for amtrak???????????
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

  10. #20
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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    Attachment 67130608

    i think we might be doing it wrong.
    I'm sure we're doing it wrong, as your top picture illustrates. Anyone who has driven around this state very much has seen sights like that all too many times.

    The problems are:
    1. There is no money to build high speed rail,
    2. High speed rail will be more of an alternative to air travel than to automobiles,
    3. They're building the thing between two dusty little farm towns in the Central Valley instead of where there might actually be some ridership.

    So, we've been doing it wrong, and it looks like we're continuing to do it wrong.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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