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Thread: California Senate vote keeps bullet train alive(edited)

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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you are preaching to the converted
    the space program - the opportunity to be a part of it - was the very reason i got my aerospace engineering degree

    but you are looking at it with the benefit of hindsight
    at the time JFK proposed a program to put a man on the moon by the end of the decade, there were LOTS of naysayers
    and their typical refrain was that there were too many other - earthbound - uses for the money that was about to be spent by NASA
    and we see that with today's high speed rail project. the same nay saying goes on with the same - ever present excuse - the money could be better spent elsewhere
    that is why the comparison is found - by me, anyway - to be quite appropriate
    I don't think we actually disagree on this.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Will the bullet trains be built in America? The tracks in this state aren't in good shape. How will they handle bullet trains?

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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    For all those chomping at the bit to see empty high speed trains running from Fresno to Bakersfield, you'll be disappointed. Fresno to Bakersfield is the first operational/test segment, not the first revenue segment. High speed passenger trains won't run until the track is extended south to Los Angeles. In the meantime it will be used by Amtrak trains to shave an hour off the journey, separate passenger from freight operations, and test trains at 220 mph (which you can't do on the peninsula).

    As for precedent, look back to the interstate highway system. The first signed contract for interstate highway work was for a section of interstate near Lebanon, MO...what is now I-44. That segment was largely worthless on its own, was no draw for commercial trucking or cross country travelers. But it was used sparingly until the highway was complete, connecting St. Louis to Springfield, Tulsa and Oklahoma City.



    As for the need, the population of California is growing rapidly, expected to approach 60M by 2050, from 37M today. Simply put, current capacity will not handle future demand. I foresee four options:

    1) Build HSR for X dollars
    2) Expand airports and highways to the same capacity for 2X dollars
    3) Rezone CA-99 and I-5 as parking facilities
    4) Start sterilizing women

    It's clear to me which is preferable.
    Last edited by TitusAndronicus; 07-11-12 at 12:56 AM.

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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Quote Originally Posted by TitusAndronicus View Post
    For all those chomping at the bit to see empty high speed trains running from Fresno to Bakersfield, you'll be disappointed. Fresno to Bakersfield is the first operational/test segment, not the first revenue segment. High speed passenger trains won't run until the track is extended south to Los Angeles. In the meantime it will be used by Amtrak trains to shave an hour off the journey, separate passenger from freight operations, and test trains at 220 mph (which you can't do on the peninsula).

    As for precedent, look back to the interstate highway system. The first signed contract for interstate highway work was for a section of interstate near Lebanon, MO...what is now I-44. That segment was largely worthless on its own, was no draw for commercial trucking or cross country travelers. But it was used sparingly until the highway was complete, connecting St. Louis to Springfield, Tulsa and Oklahoma City.

    As for the need, the population of California is growing rapidly, expected to approach 60M by 2050, from 37M today. Simply put, current capacity will not handle future demand. I foresee four options:

    1) Build HSR for X dollars
    2) Expand Airports and highways to the same capacity for 2X dollars
    3) Rezone CA-99 and I-5 as parking facilities
    4) Start sterilizing women

    It's clear to me which is preferable.
    OK now can you help us with the math by giving us the numbers used in numbers 1 and 2.

    On another point how long did it take to build the section of I-44 you are talking about and then how much longer for the rest of the road. Then can you give us the latest estimate of when this test section will be completed and then when the SF to LA line will be operational.

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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Will the bullet trains be built in America? The tracks in this state aren't in good shape. How will they handle bullet trains?
    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    OK now can you help us with the math by giving us the numbers used in numbers 1 and 2.

    On another point how long did it take to build the section of I-44 you are talking about and then how much longer for the rest of the road. Then can you give us the latest estimate of when this test section will be completed and then when the SF to LA line will be operational.
    When the initial HSR proposal was being considered, a cost study was prepared to calculate how much capacity extra lanes would provide for the full length of the valley, and their cost, as well as that for expanding airports to fill in the gap. The cost of HSR was about half of highways and runways. HSR costs have gone up, but so has the cost of asphalt (oil) and other highway construction materials.

    I don't know how long it took to complete I-44, but it took 35 years to complete the system. For much of this time, interstate highways were more dashed line than continuous.

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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Will the bullet trains be built in America? The tracks in this state aren't in good shape. How will they handle bullet trains?
    Yes built here but by foreign companies who have the technology since we took a pass on trains a long time ago.
    Highspeed trains will require a new track to handle the speed, grade crossings will be eliminated too. Like this 200MPH French TGV line completed in 2007.
    Notice the track is electrified and France gets 80% of their power from nuclear sources. Are they are so far ahead of us in efficiency that you want to just give up?
    Last edited by iguanaman; 07-11-12 at 01:50 AM.

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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Quote Originally Posted by TitusAndronicus View Post
    When the initial HSR proposal was being considered, a cost study was prepared to calculate how much capacity extra lanes would provide for the full length of the valley, and their cost, as well as that for expanding airports to fill in the gap. The cost of HSR was about half of highways and runways. HSR costs have gone up, but so has the cost of asphalt (oil) and other highway construction materials.

    I don't know how long it took to complete I-44, but it took 35 years to complete the system. For much of this time, interstate highways were more dashed line than continuous.
    Well you certainly did NOT respond with current data, wonder why??? Inflation is around 2%, oil prices are dropping, you care to tell us how much the cost is expected to increase. That is if it is ever completed, which is doubtful as many farmers and environmental groups will tie this up in court for years if not decades.

    I did not know that the highway system was only completed around 1990. You are saying to hook up the road from where ever to St. Louis took that long. I think your nose is growing, much like Mr. T who liked your semi-response so much.

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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Well you certainly did NOT respond with current data, wonder why???
    I know why! It's because in between my two most recent posts I didn't bother spend thousands of dollars to conduct and validate a scientific study to compare the current costs of HSR and highways, and had to settle for data that is ~6 years old.

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Inflation is around 2%, oil prices are dropping, you care to tell us how much the cost is expected to increase.
    This is what the state of Washington has to say about its building costs.

    Since 2002 the cost of:
    Hot mix asphalt has more than doubled
    Diesel fuel has tripled
    Asphalt binder has more than tripled
    Crude oil has nearly quadrupled

    If you think oil prices are heading down in the long run, I have a 130 year old bridge in NY to sell you.


    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I did not know that the highway system was only completed around 1990. You are saying to hook up the road from where ever to St. Louis took that long.
    I looked up I-44. Construction began in 1953 (Turner Turnpike) and the closest I have to an end date is 1982. 29 years.

    I-10 wasn't completed until 1990. I-90 wasn't complete until 1991. The original system is considered to have been completed in 1992 (I-70 finished). These things take time.

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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Yes built here but by foreign companies who have the technology since we took a pass on trains a long time ago.
    Highspeed trains will require a new track to handle the speed, grade crossings will be eliminated too. Like this 200MPH French TGV line completed in 2007.
    Notice the track is electrified and France gets 80% of their power from nuclear sources. Are they are so far ahead of us in efficiency that you want to just give up?
    Oh so Americans don't know nothin' about no 'lectricity or them train tracks cause we hadn't been res'chin' it.
    Globalist = Free Trade, Open Borders, Multiculturalist, Anti-White Racist, Hypocrite, Sophist, Deceiver, Manipulator, Warmonger, Vulgar Culture, Morally Depraved......Enemy

    Death to Globalists

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    Re: California bullet train still a go

    Quote Originally Posted by TitusAndronicus View Post
    When the initial HSR proposal was being considered, a cost study was prepared to calculate how much capacity extra lanes would provide for the full length of the valley, and their cost, as well as that for expanding airports to fill in the gap. The cost of HSR was about half of highways and runways. HSR costs have gone up, but so has the cost of asphalt (oil) and other highway construction materials.

    I don't know how long it took to complete I-44, but it took 35 years to complete the system. For much of this time, interstate highways were more dashed line than continuous.
    Well if you Globalist hadn't given all the jobs to Communist China and Corrupt Mexico than this wouldn't have been a problem.
    Globalist = Free Trade, Open Borders, Multiculturalist, Anti-White Racist, Hypocrite, Sophist, Deceiver, Manipulator, Warmonger, Vulgar Culture, Morally Depraved......Enemy

    Death to Globalists

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