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Thread: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

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    re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The punishment does not fit the crime, pure and simple. This is one way in which plea bargains are abused by our justice system...people should receive a FAIR sentence if they don't comply, and a LESSER sentence if they do. Instead, the punishments are raised so high that people don't have any choice but to plead guilty or else face a ridiculous sentence like this.
    What? You are saying that it was good to sentence the rest to FAR less, and beacuse they got good deals, so should those that did not make a deal? I have said that perhaps 10 years PER ARMED ROBBERY would be more "fair". Do you doubt this guy's guilt?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    You're jumping to conclusions. What makes you think he would never be a productive member of society? He's 18 years old, and he committed the type of crime that 18-year-olds commit. How often do you hear about 45-year-olds committing armed robbery? Very seldom. These kind of crimes are things that young people do, and it's ridiculous to say that he could never be a productive member of society when he was a little bit older.
    He was getting SSI disability, yet had NO PROBLEM grabbing a gun and robbing folks with it. How many 18 year olds get paid $650/month to do nothing? I am saying that after 7 armed robbery convictions, that people should NOT be let loose, certainly not without at least 10 years PER ARMED ROBBERY, so yes, let him out (on parole) after 66 years. His "friends" got extremely limiited sentences, perhaps they were NOT the ones holding (and firing) the gun. Armed robbery is NOT the "typical" crime that 18 year olds commit. Get real!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    And if this guy was white and wealthy and the son of some influential political figure, you'd say exactly the same thing, right?
    YEP.
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    re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    What? You are saying that it was good to sentence the rest to FAR less, and beacuse they got good deals, so should those that did not make a deal?
    I'm saying that people who go to trial should get a fair sentence for their crime, and people who plead guilty should get lesser sentences. Instead, under our current criminal justice systems, people who go to trial have their lives completely ruined, and people who plead guilty get fair or harsh sentences.

    I have said that perhaps 10 years PER ARMED ROBBERY would be more "fair". Do you doubt this guy's guilt?
    I don't doubt his guilt (although I wasn't on the jury to have an informed opinion); the issue is with his sentence, not his conviction.

    He was getting SSI disability, yet had NO PROBLEM grabbing a gun and robbing folks with it. How many 18 year olds get paid $650/month to do nothing?
    What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying he should be punished more harshly because he has a disability?

    I am saying that after 7 armed robbery convictions, that people should NOT be let loose, certainly not without at least 10 years PER ARMED ROBBERY, so yes, let him out (on parole) after 66 years. His "friends" got extremely limiited sentences, perhaps they were NOT the ones holding (and firing) the gun. Armed robbery is NOT the "typical" crime that 18 year olds commit. Get real!
    Armed robbery is almost exclusively a crime of young males. It's very rare that older people commit this crime. So saying that he could never be a productive member of society is simply untrue. When he's a bit older he won't be a risk for committing armed robbery anymore; the crime statistics simply do not support the idea that a 40-year-old guy is as likely to commit armed robbery as an 18-year-old guy.
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    re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

    I do realize this is off topic, but it was in the article..
    "In one recent, highly controversial Florida sentencing, Marissa Alexander, an African-American woman in Jacksonville with no previous criminal record, was sentenced to 20 years for firing a pistol twice into the air while trying to ward off an attack by her abusive husband. Denied the protection of Florida's controversial "stand your ground" law, the 31-year-old mother of three was convicted of aggravated assault, a felony, and given the mandatory sentence for anyone who fires a gun in commission of the felony."

    There is something wrong with Florida's judicial system
    Can someone give the stats on how much average jail time one would get if they were to shoot someone(non-fatally)?
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    re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And again my point stands as the 60% is on average.. which means some get less some get much more.. and in this case... That his accomplices were black does not mean they were not given harsher sentences despite "giving up" their compatriot relative to what a white defendant would have gotten.

    However as I stated, it is an average, and considering that this guy got far above the average by several 100%, then the over all sentence is still in the "ball park" average I bet.

    Point is.. he got a harsher sentence because he was black and poor.. pure and simple..
    And yet you still haven't proven that this case falls under the 60% that you claim this person belongs under. Same applies to his accomplices. How do you know that this wasn't just because the judge is trying to garner some votes? Indeed...do you even know if the judge is white or black or hispanic or chinese? Also how does Florida's court system work in regards to sentencing? Is it the judges job? Or is it a juries job?

    You seem to jump to conclusions without even once trying to find any of the facts.

    Just because statistics show that you have a 60% chance of being correct doesn't mean that you cannot fall within the 40% of being wrong.
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    re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice - Yahoo! News







    This must be that racially unbiased justice system I keep hearing around.
    I think 162 years was excessive, but at the same time, let's not forget that he participated not in one armed robbery, but in MANY armed robberies. And if you are armed while robbing, an assumption must be made that you intend to kill someone if you don't get what you want. I am not spilling any tears over this punk.
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    re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And yet you still haven't proven that this case falls under the 60% that you claim this person belongs under. Same applies to his accomplices. How do you know that this wasn't just because the judge is trying to garner some votes? Indeed...do you even know if the judge is white or black or hispanic or chinese? Also how does Florida's court system work in regards to sentencing? Is it the judges job? Or is it a juries job?

    You seem to jump to conclusions without even once trying to find any of the facts.

    Just because statistics show that you have a 60% chance of being correct doesn't mean that you cannot fall within the 40% of being wrong.
    It doesn't matter if the judge was trying to garner some votes, or if the judge was white/black/Hispanic/Chinese. If he thinks he can SUCCEED in garnering votes by locking up a black guy for a ridiculous amount of time, then that just proves that our system is racist. And the judge's ethnicity has nothing to do with whether or not he's racially biased against black defendants in his courtroom. Same thing for a jury.

    But more importantly, I think you miss the whole point that our entire justice system as a whole is racially biased...this case is merely an example of that problem. Whenever people try to pick at the specifics of individual examples of perceived racial injustice (e.g. the people who defend George Zimmerman) rather than discussing the larger issue , I think it's because they subconsciously identify more with the people being CALLED racist than they do with the victims of racism. And that subconscious identification is, itself, racist.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-05-12 at 12:23 PM.
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    re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice - Yahoo! News





    This must be that racially unbiased justice system I keep hearing around.


    Only racists see everyone in racial terms. The court was a federal court.

    A "string of ARMED robberies." Each robbery is a separate offense. I suppose you think that after the first one, all the rest are freebies?

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    re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fruityfact View Post
    I do realize this is off topic, but it was in the article..
    "In one recent, highly controversial Florida sentencing, Marissa Alexander, an African-American woman in Jacksonville with no previous criminal record, was sentenced to 20 years for firing a pistol twice into the air while trying to ward off an attack by her abusive husband. Denied the protection of Florida's controversial "stand your ground" law, the 31-year-old mother of three was convicted of aggravated assault, a felony, and given the mandatory sentence for anyone who fires a gun in commission of the felony."

    There is something wrong with Florida's judicial system
    Can someone give the stats on how much average jail time one would get if they were to shoot someone(non-fatally)?


    The 20 years for firing a warning shot is a mandatory sentence under Florida law. The statute does not allow sentencing to a shorter period of time.

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    re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And yet you still haven't proven that this case falls under the 60% that you claim this person belongs under. Same applies to his accomplices. How do you know that this wasn't just because the judge is trying to garner some votes? Indeed...do you even know if the judge is white or black or hispanic or chinese? Also how does Florida's court system work in regards to sentencing? Is it the judges job? Or is it a juries job?

    You seem to jump to conclusions without even once trying to find any of the facts.

    Just because statistics show that you have a 60% chance of being correct doesn't mean that you cannot fall within the 40% of being wrong.
    The case was before a FEDERAL judge, meaning FEDERAL law.

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    re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    While I agree the sentence is too long, I object to the references to it being a first offence. He was convicted on offences relating to seven separate incidents so by definition, only one of those (if that) can be a first offence.
    Actually not. There has to be a prior conviction for the others to subsequent convictions.

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