Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 54

Thread: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

  1. #21
    Guru

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Last Seen
    11-24-13 @ 11:44 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    3,001

    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    Obamacare must be repealed.

    The Republicans will pass a new law to replace it that will allow people to buy health insurance across state lines. This fact will reduce the cost of the insurance policies by a significant amount. They will also allow people to purchaser a range of policies form a very basic one to one that has lots of "bells and whistles".

    Obamacare does none of these things and this in one reason it is so very expensive. Are you aware Obamacare requires young healthy males to purchase a policy that covers the costs of mammograms and pap smears for women!
    And we need tort reform to make it illegal to sue a hospital or a doctor or any other medical professional.

  2. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    07-24-12 @ 08:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    271

    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post

    And we need tort reform to make it illegal to sue a hospital or a doctor or any other medical professional.
    You are indeed correct JR.

    The good thing about tort reform is it will bring down the cost of malpractice insurance our doctors have to pay. Our doctors will never be sued, but nevertheless they are required to carry this expensive insurance. The premiums can run as high as $100,000 a year for doctors who deliver babies (pediatricians).

    These costs are passed on to our insurance providers by our doctors and cause our premiums to be much higher than they should be.

  3. #23
    Sage
    Gibberish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Last Seen
    12-23-12 @ 09:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    6,339

    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Obamatax is going to raise taxes on the poor and middle class, while at the same time increase their costs of HC

    We are not allowed to judge liberals on the results of their policies though, only their "good intentions" right?
    Can you point out where people will be charged higher HC costs AND be taxed on top of that?
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
    - Warren Buffett

  4. #24
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Last Seen
    09-24-17 @ 04:38 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    29,261

    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    You are indeed correct JR.

    The good thing about tort reform is it will bring down the cost of malpractice insurance our doctors have to pay. Our doctors will never be sued, but nevertheless they are required to carry this expensive insurance. The premiums can run as high as $100,000 a year for doctors who deliver babies (pediatricians).

    These costs are passed on to our insurance providers by our doctors and cause our premiums to be much higher than they should be.

    New study: Tort reform has not reduced health care costs in Texas

  5. #25
    Sage
    Gibberish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Last Seen
    12-23-12 @ 09:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    6,339

    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    And we need tort reform to make it illegal to sue a hospital or a doctor or any other medical professional.
    Seriously? What do you propose we do for the nurse or doctor that kills someone or cuts off the wrong leg by their own mistake? Do you suggest medical professionals be allowed X number of negligent deaths before negative consequences? How does the family get retribution? Just a friendly "we are sorry your sister died but you made the choice coming here".
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
    - Warren Buffett

  6. #26
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No states are seriously going to hold out and NOT agree to the Medicaid expansion. Remember that the Supreme Court made its ruling less than a week ago; the threats to not participate were most likely just some pissed off Republican governors blowing off steam. Any governor would have to be an idiot to not participate in the expansion; they get free federal money for the first couple years, and the federal government still picks up 90% of the tab after the first few years. That's an insanely good deal for the states...and the governors can't really afford NOT to take it. It's an even better deal for the states that already have stingy Medicaid programs (i.e. the red states), because the federal government pays the total cost of bringing them up from wherever they are now, to the new federal level.

    Sure, there might be a couple governors in states that really hate Obama who will resist for a couple years. But that won't last long. The voters will force them to participate, and/or the health care providers will lobby them to participate.
    Never underestimate the partisan stupidity of a tea party governor, my friend. My governor (Scott of Florida) has ALREADY turned down several billion dollars to build a high speed rail line that was going to require virtually no money from the state. I fully expect him to follow through on his promise to opt out of Medicaid expansion, despite the fact that he is a former hospital corp. executive and knows full well that it would save hospitals billions and billions of dollars. I reckon that by the time he's voted out of office he will have pissed away more federal funding than any governor in history.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  7. #27
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,593

    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    No, I'm not wrong. For the first three years the federal government will finance 100% of the Medicade expansion. After that states will only pay 10% of the cost. So if a state opts out, it will be turning down tens of billions of dollars in federal aid that would go to providing health care to the working poor -- thus taking pressure off hospitals and clinics that now have to eat those costs.
    You just do not get it do you? They are NOT now on medicaid, so unless they have a life threatening emergency they CAN BE and ARE denied any free ER care. You don't get free ER care unless you can convince them that you NEED IT NOW, after you get on medicaid MONEY comes with that care so all the care that the poor ask for is then given FOR FEDERAL TAX MONEY. I imagine, yet can not prove, that a doctor is happy to give a placebo pill or fake X-ray to get some free federal medicare money for "treating" some poor moron that simply likes seeing doctors.

    So, the state gets NOTHING except longer lines at all care facilities that these new medicaid patients choose to visit. Even RomneyCare did not reduce ER use, as all claimed that it would.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-04-12 at 05:12 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  8. #28
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Never underestimate the partisan stupidity of a tea party governor, my friend. My governor (Scott of Florida) has ALREADY turned down several billion dollars to build a high speed rail line that was going to require virtually no money from the state. I fully expect him to follow through on his promise to opt out of Medicaid expansion, despite the fact that he is a former hospital corp. executive and knows full well that it would save hospitals billions and billions of dollars. I reckon that by the time he's voted out of office he will have pissed away more federal funding than any governor in history.
    Do you realize that they may reject the program, because of very expensive future costs.
    The same rational was applied to a worthless HSR line.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #29
    Sage
    jamesrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    A place where common sense exists
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 09:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    31,067

    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    If the recalcitrant states stick by their guns, Obamacare will easily become a thing of the past by 2014. And here is how.

    "If states decide to neither expand Medicaid nor set up health care exchanges, these acts would effectively block most if not all of ObamaCare's new entitlement spending."


    Several authorities have pointed out that the Medicaid expansion under ObamaCare would cost New York state, for example, up to $52 billion over ten years. If New York and other states balk at the cost most of those who would've been eligible for Medicaid will now become eligible for subsidies through ObamaCare's health-insurance exchanges. And for several years those subsidies are paid in full by the feds.

    Of course, these authorities conclude if states do shift those costs back to the feds, that will cause the federal cost of ObamaCare to skyrocket. If every state were to refuse to expand its Medicaid program, the feds would save roughly $130 billion in their share of Medicaid costs in 2014, but would have to pay $230 billion more in new exchange-based subsidies - for a net added cost of $100 billion. And that's just for the first year.

    Article follows.

    Only 13 states to date have set up state exchanges, with Tanner estimating that "as few as" 15 states will have done so by the 2014 deadline. The feds are empowered by the law to come in and set up exchanges in the recalcitrant states. But even if they manage to do so, which is an uncertain premise, they may have a small problem on their hands, according to Tanner federal subsidies are available only through exchanges that the states set up. The feds can't offer subsidies through a federally run exchange.

    Thus, if states neither expanded Medicaid nor set up exchanges, that would effectively block most of ObamaCare's new entitlement spending. On top of that, the employer mandate penalty, for employers with more than 50 employees who do not provide "adequate" health insurance, kicks in only when at least one employee "qualifies for subsidies under the exchange:"

    Since subsidies can only be provided via a state-authorized exchange, a state that refuses to set one up could end up blocking the employer mandate altogether. Whether this whole string of reasoning holds together in reality remains to be seen, but at the very least, unless we are spared by a timely repeal, we can look forward to a long line of lawsuits and legal wrangling that will hopefully take years to resolve.

    Source: Blog: Can the states unravel ObamaCare?
    If states can legalize pot and have sanctuary states and cities then by that same logic states can say no to Obama-care.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  10. #30
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    You just do not get it do you? They are NOT now on medicaid, so unless they have a life threatening emergency they CAN BE and ARE denied any free ER care. You don't get free ER care unless you can convince them that you NEED IT NOW, after you get on medicaid MONEY comes with that care so all the care that the poor ask for is then given FOR FEDERAL TAX MONEY. I imagine, yet can not prove, that a doctor is happy to give a placebo pill or fake X-ray to get some free federal medicare money for "treating" some poor moron that simply likes seeing doctors.

    So, the state gets NOTHING except longer lines at all care facilities that these new medicaid patients choose to visit. Even RomneyCare did not reduce ER use, as all claimed that it would.
    But I DO get it! See, in fact they DO have emergencies and serious illnesses that ARE treated at emergency rooms ALL THE TIME! That's why hospitals have tens of billions of dollars of costs THAT THEY HAVE TO EAT! Of course there is also an economic cost to having a large population of workers who don't have access to regular medical care, in terms of lost productivity. And there is also the fact that medical spending ... IS STILL SPENDING that contributes to the state's economy.

    So what the state gets is billions and billions of dollars and a healthier population and economy. And it costs the state NOTHING for three years, and after that the feds pay nine out of every ten dollars!
    Last edited by AdamT; 07-04-12 at 06:27 PM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •