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Thread: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

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    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post

    The residents of a state that opts out will lose tens of billions of dollars and there is absolutely no way around that.
    You are mistaken, AdamT.

    Where do think the government gets the tens of billions of dollars that they return to the states to administer the program?

    They get it by taxing the residents of the state! It is as if you give me $10.00 and then I give it back to you to purchase a product. Do you really believe you are now buying this product at a $10.00 discount?

    No! You are paying the full price for the product! This is the same "shell game" that the Obamacare "reimbursements" to the states are based on. Most people are not smart enough to understand these facts and will not understand them until their federal taxes go up!

    MarineTpartier, do you understand what I am saying? Please explain it to AdamT so he will understand he too is being taken to the cleaners by the Obama administration.

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    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    MarineTpartier, do you understand what I am saying? Please explain it to AdamT so he will understand he too is being taken to the cleaners by the Obama administration.
    AdamT's a good dude man. However, he's a President Obama kool-aid drinker. No matter what you say, you aren't changing his mind lol. Move along, nothing to see here.
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    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post

    AdamT's a good dude man. However, he's a President Obama kool-aid drinker. No matter what you say, you aren't changing his mind lol. Move along, nothing to see here.
    I'm afraid you are correct my friend.


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    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    if the states won't participate (and i expect my state will be one of these), then we'll have no choice but to do it federally. if it doesn't work, then we scrap it and move towards single payer.

    the mandate is really the last chance Republicans have of keeping the failing employer-based private health insurance boondoggle. without the states, it collapses under its own weight, and we move towards something similar to what other first world countries are doing. either way, the genie is out of the lamp.

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    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post

    if the states won't participate (and i expect my state will be one of these), then we'll have no choice but to do it federally. if it doesn't work, then we scrap it and move towards single payer.

    the mandate is really the last chance Republicans have of keeping the failing employer-based private health insurance boondoggle. without the states, it collapses under its own weight, and we move towards something similar to what other first world countries are doing. either way, the genie is out of the lamp.
    Obamacare must be repealed.

    The Republicans will pass a new law to replace it that will allow people to buy health insurance across state lines. This fact will reduce the cost of the insurance policies by a significant amount. They will also allow people to purchaser a range of policies form a very basic one to one that has lots of "bells and whistles".

    Obamacare does none of these things and this in one reason it is so very expensive. Are you aware Obamacare requires young healthy males to purchase a policy that covers the costs of mammograms and pap smears for women!

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    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    No states are seriously going to hold out and NOT agree to the Medicaid expansion. Remember that the Supreme Court made its ruling less than a week ago; the threats to not participate were most likely just some pissed off Republican governors blowing off steam. Any governor would have to be an idiot to not participate in the expansion; they get free federal money for the first couple years, and the federal government still picks up 90% of the tab after the first few years. That's an insanely good deal for the states...and the governors can't really afford NOT to take it. It's an even better deal for the states that already have stingy Medicaid programs (i.e. the red states), because the federal government pays the total cost of bringing them up from wherever they are now, to the new federal level.

    Sure, there might be a couple governors in states that really hate Obama who will resist for a couple years. But that won't last long. The voters will force them to participate, and/or the health care providers will lobby them to participate.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-04-12 at 02:45 PM.
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    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    Obamacare must be repealed.

    The Republicans will pass a new law to replace it that will allow people to buy health insurance across state lines. This fact will reduce the cost of the insurance policies by a significant amount. They will also allow people to purchaser a range of policies form a very basic one to one that has lots of "bells and whistles".

    Obamacare does none of these things and this in one reason it is so very expensive. Are you aware Obamacare requires young healthy males to purchase a policy that covers the costs of mammograms and pap smears for women!
    i've heard all of the talking points against the PPACA. the only good thing i can say about it is that it eliminates some slimy insurance practices. those should have been passed in a different bill, though.

    to fix our health care problems, we need basic coverage for all Americans, and the coverage should in no way be tied to specific employment. also, we have to vastly increase the number of primary care physicians, which is artificially low. we have to expand our medical schools and make them more affordable. and we have to reduce the cost of bringing a drug to market, which means patients are going to have to accept a higher degree of risk.

    put simply, our system is failing, and it's taking down other sectors with it. a mandate to buy private insurance is barely a band aid. the starting point of negotiations should have been medicare for all, and the compromise should have been a public option for everyone who fell through the cracks. but, unfortunately, the opposition wanted either nothing or a bill that was so fatally flawed that it couldn't possibly work, so we got the mandate.

    at least it's a step. eventually, people will tire of going bankrupt over their kid's broken arm when that's not the status quo in any other first world country. at that point, maybe we'll really try to solve the problem.

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    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    You are mistaken, AdamT.

    The costs of Obamacare will skyrocket by at least a trillion dollars as soon as the Medicaid expansion is implemented in 2014.

    Here is a crucial statistic from CNN.

    The world of the U.S. health care issue – Global Public Square - CNN.com Blogs

    New Jersey’s Camden Coalition of Healthcare Providers founder and family medicine practitioner, Jeffrey Brenner, used medical billing records to find that just 1% of patients accounted for 30% of health care costs in Camden. And that's not all he discovered in the city's three hospitals. He says: "We learned that someone went 113 times in one year. Someone went 324 times in five years. In similar workup in Trenton, they found someone who went 450 times in one year." These were people with complicated medical histories and chronic illnesses. One patient alone racked up $3.5 million in medical bills over a five year period. As Brenner says, :"They're the difficult patients to treat, and no one is being paid and incentivized to pay attention to them."

    What's more, Camden's problem is America's problem. Just 5% of Americans accounted for half of our nation's health care costs in 2009. This is perhaps the crucial statistic to understand about America's health care problem.

    Obamacare does absolutely nothing to resolve this problem. In fact, it makes the problem worse by adding millions of indigent people to the Medicaid rolls who will abuse and overuse the heath care system like many of them do now.

    Abuse and overuse of the health care system will produce much higher costs ($ trillions) to the U.S. taxpayers.
    Obamatax is going to raise taxes on the poor and middle class, while at the same time increase their costs of HC

    We are not allowed to judge liberals on the results of their policies though, only their "good intentions" right?

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    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    This is the 1850's all over again.

    The idea that extremist right wing politicians in certain states would chose party over people is disgusting.
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    Re: Can the states by themselves now unravel ObamaCare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No states are seriously going to hold out and NOT agree to the Medicaid expansion. Remember that the Supreme Court made its ruling less than a week ago; the threats to not participate were most likely just some pissed off Republican governors blowing off steam. Any governor would have to be an idiot to not participate in the expansion; they get free federal money for the first couple years, and the federal government still picks up 90% of the tab after the first few years. That's an insanely good deal for the states...and the governors can't really afford NOT to take it. It's an even better deal for the states that already have stingy Medicaid programs (i.e. the red states), because the federal government pays the total cost of bringing them up from wherever they are now, to the new federal level.

    Sure, there might be a couple governors in states that really hate Obama who will resist for a couple years. But that won't last long. The voters will force them to participate, and/or the health care providers will lobby them to participate.
    This petty bickering really concerns people like me who deal with serious medical issues.

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