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Michigan's GOP governor vetoes voter suppression bills

“Voting rights are precious and we need to work especially hard to make it possible for people to vote," Snyder said.

I'm going to choose to take him at his word. Good on Snyder.
 
Iron Yank said:
If the fraud wasnt enough to make a difference "your" El presidentay wouldnt be trying to make illegals...legal.
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1.) He is your "El presidentay" as well.
2.)Fraud does not make a difference in elections in this country. There is no evidence to back up this claim.
3.)Voter fraud is not a problem in this country.
4.)Voter fraud is more rare than winning the lottery and getting struck by lightning in this country

He knows damn well this could sway the election for him or he wouldnt have gave us serfs his presidential edict usurping the constitution and dictating to the people that some illegals would now be legal.
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Are you seriously saying the "illegal Alien" vote is going to decide this election?

Since he is obviosly lying
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Lying about what?

it is not hard to figure out why his idealogical extremly hard left base like yourself would follow
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Hard left? Are you kidding me?
Oh yea I am his "base" :lamo


the piper right off the cliff and lie the whole time about it as if you really told the truth very few would follow this logic or should I say lack of it.
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Lying about what?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
1.) He is your "El presidentay" as well.
2.)Fraud does not make a difference in elections in this country. There is no evidence to back up this claim.
3.)Voter fraud is not a problem in this country.
4.)Voter fraud is more rare than winning the lottery and getting struck by lightning in this country
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And how can you make these claims if there is no ID verification of citizenship? Answer= you cant.....


Are you seriously saying the "illegal Alien" vote is going to decide this election?
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With an estimated 12-20 million in the country and if no one is checking ID's your saying it couldnt?


Lying about what?
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I'm sorry but these are too numerous to list in one post but I can give you an example.
Obamacare for one in which he lied about the cost, numerous times to the sheeple.
 
Iron Yank said:
And how can you make these claims if there is no ID verification of citizenship? Answer= you cant.....
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Answer: You can!
Here is a nice little report: http://brennan.3cdn.net/c176576c0065a7eb84_gxm6ib0hl.pdf
Here is a nice little analysis: Voter ID Laws Study: Voter Fraud Even Rarer Than The Odds of Winning Mega Millions
Here is a nice little article: Five myths about voter fraud - The Washington Post


With an estimated 12-20 million in the country and if no one is checking ID's your saying it couldnt?
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Yep we all know that the "illegal immigrants" go out in hordes to vote. :lamo


I'm sorry but these are too numerous to list in one post but I can give you an example.
Obamacare for one in which he lied about the cost, numerous times to the sheeple.
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:lamo
This isnt about Obamacare. Good god.
News flash to American politics! PEOPLE LIE! OBAMA ISNT THE FIRST PRESIDENT TO LIE!
 
Iron Yank said:
Lets be completly honest here, the reason the Dems dont want voter ID is that they just wouldnt win the election if they couldnt cheat by getting illegals to vote.
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Is that really you trying to be completely honest? If you honestly think that there are enough illegals voting to change any national election then (edited to avoid suspension).
 
Iron Yank said:
Lets be completly honest here, the reason the Dems dont want voter ID is that they just wouldnt win the election if they couldnt cheat by getting illegals to vote. There ideas are for the most part not poplular with the masses so they have to lie.

We witness this on a daily basis.

Liberalism is based in either out right lies or utopian wet dreams, pick your poison they both fail in the end.
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Let's face it, you're just another example of the issue conservatism faces: the inability to accept facts and the constant use of pseudoscience. Conservatives love stats and science except when it disagrees with them - which of course is why science and education is "liberal".
 
As someone who works in Michigan government, this came as quite a surprise. However, I am glad to see it. We finally have a Republican governor who takes a stand and will not be bossed around by right wing think tanks and the Koch Brothers.

Let us hope Gov. Snyder shows his independence on other things as well in the coming 30 months of his term.
 
Iron Yank said:
And how can you make these claims if there is no ID verification of citizenship? Answer= you cant.....




With an estimated 12-20 million in the country and if no one is checking ID's your saying it couldnt?


I'm sorry but these are too numerous to list in one post but I can give you an example.
Obamacare for one in which he lied about the cost, numerous times to the sheeple.
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Did I miss your post where you link to verifiable evidence that voter fraud is a problem in American elections?
 
Iron Yank said:
Lets be completly honest here, the reason the Dems dont want voter ID is that they just wouldnt win the election if they couldnt cheat by getting illegals to vote.
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"Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done," - Mike Turzai, Pennsylvania House majority leader
 
I like how after all these years of asking for proof, they come up with nothing so now the mantra is "Well deep down in our heart we know it's happening and if we just had this voter ID law we could really prove it"
.
Now, just wait after all these voter ID laws get passed and more studies show that there isn't voter fraud (just like now) then they will say "See we told you voter ID would stop voter fraud".

You cons are too predictable.

Cons are funny. Funny cons.
 
A little bit dated but does anyone remember the whole US Attorneys losing their job because they refused to prosecute non-existent voter fraud cases? Republican appointed federal attorneys were ordered to dig up and make big public cases out of voter fraud and they couldn't do it because it just wasn't happening - remember?


TIME, Mar 2007
Why Were These U.S. Attorneys Fired?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
ONCE is too much, and that same valid, state issued, photo ID is needed for MANY other public and private purposes. The cases of "hardship" are rare as well, with all of the money spent fighting the voter ID laws the IDs could be made FREE.
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You make good points, but notice that the voter ID laws are being pushed right before an election, rather than during the two years between elections.

Also TMK, none include provisions to facilitate IDs for legitimate voters.

While I don't have a problem per se with voter IDs, the process also makes other "caging" activities easier. Poor people move more often than those better off. So there will be groups checking to see if your registration matches the address on your ID. If it doesn't, no vote for you.

Its unfortunate that Republicans tend to do better when voter turnout is low. Makes it look like they have motives.

Then we have the 18,000 legitimate voters scrubbed from the roles in the 2000 election in Florida. Looks like shenanigans rather than zeal for the purity of the process.
 
What if...? said:
You make good points, but notice that the voter ID laws are being pushed right before an election, rather than during the two years between elections.
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Voters tend to find these voter ID laws popular,so it makes sense to bring up an important issue around election time.Voters in my state overwhelmingly voted for voter ID law to be enacted during an election. One of the only reasons to push for an issue during the beginning or middle of a term is due to the fact it is a very unpopular issue.If a unpopular issue is pushed right before an election then politcians could lose their job.If unpopular issue is pushed during the beginning or middle of the term then voter anger could dissipate by the time the elections come around and thus the likelihood of the politician losing an election is greatly reduced.

Oklahoma's Voter ID Law To Go Into Effect July 1 - NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com |
 
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jamesrage said:
Oklahoma's Voter ID Law To Go Into Effect July 1 - NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com |
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There's an interesting statement about what qualifies as "valid ID" in Oklahoma.
In addition, voters may use the voter identification card they received by mail from the County Election Board when they registered to vote. The law allows use of the voter identification card even though it does not include a photograph or an expiration date.
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I thought the whole point of this voter ID thing was that each voter had to prove who they were at the polling place, so what is to stop criminals from taking such STATE APPROVED cards to the polling place and using one of these ID cards - WHICH HAS NO PHOTO!
 
TheDemSocialist said:
The amount of "fraud" that goes on elections is no where close enough to decide elections and many of them accusations of fraud turn out to be bs. And how much could these ID laws cost? Estimated around $828 million. Sounds like a bunch of wasteful tax payer money.
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Have you been following the results of Congressman Rangel's democratic primary held last week? His democratic opponent is alleging voter fraud. The vote is extremely close and the smallest amount of fraud would be enough to decide the election.
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But Espaillat's supporters charge that votes were intentionally suppressed, not counted, and even tampered with. They are demanding that U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder step in and launch a federal voter fraud investigation.

Espaillat's supporters told Fox News that some voters who speak Spanish were not allowed to vote on the machines but told they had to fill out affidavit paper ballots; that others were told their names did not appear on the voting lists; and that poll workers even allegedly tampered with completed paper ballots by opening the envelopes after they were cast.


Read more: Rangel opponent floats possibility of new election amid fraud claims | Fox News
 
jamesrage said:
A photo ID is not hard to obtain and cheap to obtain. IDs in Michigan are ten dollars.If you are legally blind or over the age of 65 then IDs are free. Considering the fact you need a ID for cashing a check, applying for benefits, applying for a job and many other things there is absolutely no reason to not have a state issued photo ID or driver's license.
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If politicians who aren't trying to suppress voting think a voter ID is necessary, then they can ensure that everyone gets a voter ID card when they register to vote. If they aren't going to do that, then it's voter suppression and I'll never support it.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
No, it is DISCOVERED at that rate. If you have no way to KNOW who actually voted as Mr. John Smith, then you can't prove fraud. That is like saying shoplifting is very rare, it is just sloppy inventory work, that makes it appear to be much higher. LOL
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Meh, as far I'm concerned, the government needs to prove itself before restricting people's behavior which means it needs more proof than "we don't really know if voter fraud is a significant issue" to restrict people's ability to vote even further. Interestingly enough, that's a pretty popular position on the right. As a result, it's funny that how many on the right abandon it when it comes to this issue. That's either because they believe in the unproven conspiracies of widespread Democrat voter fraud or they want to suppress voting. Neither reason is good enough for requiring voter IDs.
 
jerry7 said:
Have you been following the results of Congressman Rangel's democratic primary held last week? His democratic opponent is alleging voter fraud. The vote is extremely close and the smallest amount of fraud would be enough to decide the election.
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But Espaillat's supporters charge that votes were intentionally suppressed, not counted, and even tampered with. They are demanding that U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder step in and launch a federal voter fraud investigation.

Espaillat's supporters told Fox News that some voters who speak Spanish were not allowed to vote on the machines but told they had to fill out affidavit paper ballots; that others were told their names did not appear on the voting lists; and that poll workers even allegedly tampered with completed paper ballots by opening the envelopes after they were cast.


Read more: Rangel opponent floats possibility of new election amid fraud claims | Fox News
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This is funny in a very sad way when the poster doesn't realise that his example of "voter fraud" is nothing of the sort. It is the stealing of an election - maybe - by the polling place workers which by any understanding is not what one could call "voter fraud". Voter ID cards make zero difference if the election workers where you vote can change your vote electronically or "lose" the ballot box in which your paper vote is stored.

I would hope the 'journalists' at FoxNews know the difference but their headline does favour the current Republican Party propaganda even though the story tells the actual story.
 
Somerville said:
I wonder why a Republican governor would veto such bills when "voter fraud" is such a major part of the Republican position. I realise he stated his reasoning in the linked article but still ...



more at MLive.com
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Michigan has had voter photo ID since their Supreme Court approved it in 2007. The law had actually been on the books since 1996 but the AGs had neglected to enforce it. It has been mandatory for years. Snyder vetoed several bills meant to expand the current law. He also approved several others.
 
jerry7 said:
Michigan has had voter photo ID since their Supreme Court approved it in 2007. The law had actually been on the books since 1996 but the AGs had neglected to enforce it. It has been mandatory for years. Snyder vetoed several bills meant to expand the current law. He also approved several others.
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Interesting…and what was the political persuasion of those AG’s since the Supreme Court upheld the LAW?
 
ThePlayDrive said:
It is voter suppression. /shrug
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It is not voter suppression.Saying its voter suppression does not make it so.If IDs were expensive or almost impossible to get then it would be voter suppression. However IDs are cheap to get and in some cases free to get.IDs are also not hard to obtain.
 
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ThePlayDrive said:
If politicians who aren't trying to suppress voting think a voter ID is necessary, then they can ensure that everyone gets a voter ID card when they register to vote. If they aren't going to do that, then it's voter suppression and I'll never support it.
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Why would they need a separate ID for voting when there is already a state issued ID? Besides that many places do not require that you be there in person to register to vote,nor do they ask for ID. Unless you have been living under a rock for the past ten years then there is no valid reason why you don't have a state issued ID.You need a ID for loans,cashing a check, applying for benefits, getting a job and many other things. The idea that requiring a state issued ID to vote is voter suppression is idiotic and nothing more than fear mongering lib-tards.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
It is voter suppression. /shrug
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Actually that and per the Michigan Supreme court:

After the enactment of HAVA...One recommendation proposed that voters provide photo identification in order to deter fraud and enhance ballot integrity.

Of further interest:

We hold that the photo identification requirement contained in the statute is facially constitutional under the balancing test articulated by the United States Supreme Court in Burdick v Takushi.1 The identification requirement is a reasonable, nondiscriminatory restriction designed to preserve the purity of elections and to prevent abuses of the electoral franchise, as demanded by art 2, § 4 of the Michigan Constitution, thereby preventing lawful voters from having their votes diluted by those cast by fraudulent voters. Moreover, as no voter is required to incur the costs of obtaining a photo identification card as a condition of voting, the identification obligation imposed by MCL 168.523(1) cannot properly be characterized as an unconstitutional poll tax under the Twenty-fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution.

http://coa.courts.mi.gov/documents/...70718_S130589_44_advisoryopinion1nov06-op.pdf
 
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