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Thread: Turkey scrambles jets as Syrian choppers near border

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    Turkey scrambles jets as Syrian choppers near border

    Istanbul (CNN) -- Turkey scrambled fighter jets three separate times Saturday as Syrian helicopters neared the border between the two countries, Turkey's military said Sunday.
    The helicopters were in Syrian airspace, but were getting close to the border, the armed forces statement said.

    The jets -- a total of six -- were scrambled twice out of Incirlik, and once out of Batman, it said.

    The incident underscores rising tensions between the two nations in the wake of Syria's downing a Turkish F-4 Phantom jet on June 22.


    http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/01/world/...html?hpt=hp_t2

    This could get very ugly if this continues.

    And just for the lulz.


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    Re: Turkey scrambles jets as Syrian choppers near border

    Yeah, I'm not liking this much at all. If Turkey and Syria go to war, NATO might be forced to get involved in something we really, really should stay the hell out of. I don't know what kind of game the Syrian government is playing, but it's damned dangereous to militarily taunt a neighbor while it's already embroiled in civil war. I don't understand what positive result Syria could possibly expect from this.

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    Re: Turkey scrambles jets as Syrian choppers near border

    Read a story about how the Turkish plane that was shot down by Syria... they found the pilots' helmets but no body. Dont' know if people are just putting their tin foil hats on or not but if not... this is getting very suspicious in appearance. Because it looks like the Gulf of Tonkin all over again just to get Turkey... our US ally and home to the bulk of the US' air force bases, into an intervention. Which it also appears like Hillary is kinda pushing for.


    Helmets Found But No Pilots, Mystery Deepens in Plane Crash

    Search teams have reportedly found the boots and helmets belonging to two Turkish aviators whose plane was shot down by Syrian forces last week, but there’s still no sign of the pilots themselves.

    Top Turkish officials announced today the helmets were found among the two-seat Air Force plane’s wreckage, Turkey’s prominent Hurriyet Daily reported. No parachutes have been found but the flyers’ boots were discovered days before, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said.

    Erdogan said it was unclear whether the pilots had been able to eject before the plane went down.
    Last edited by poweRob; 07-01-12 at 11:24 PM.
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    Re: Turkey scrambles jets as Syrian choppers near border

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Yeah, I'm not liking this much at all. If Turkey and Syria go to war, NATO might be forced to get involved in something we really, really should stay the hell out of. I don't know what kind of game the Syrian government is playing, but it's damned dangereous to militarily taunt a neighbor while it's already embroiled in civil war. I don't understand what positive result Syria could possibly expect from this.
    It may be an attempt to create an external threat, in the hopes that it will unite the population. It's not going to work.
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    Re: Turkey scrambles jets as Syrian choppers near border

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Read a story about how the Turkish plane that was shot down by Syria... they found the pilots' helmets but no body. Dont' know if people are just putting their tin foil hats on or not but if not... this is getting very suspicious in appearance. Because it looks like the Gulf of Tonkin all over again just to get Turkey... our US ally and home to the bulk of the US' air force bases, into an intervention. Which it also appears like Hillary is kinda pushing for.


    Helmets Found But No Pilots, Mystery Deepens in Plane Crash

    Search teams have reportedly found the boots and helmets belonging to two Turkish aviators whose plane was shot down by Syrian forces last week, but there’s still no sign of the pilots themselves.

    Top Turkish officials announced today the helmets were found among the two-seat Air Force plane’s wreckage, Turkey’s prominent Hurriyet Daily reported. No parachutes have been found but the flyers’ boots were discovered days before, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said.

    Erdogan said it was unclear whether the pilots had been able to eject before the plane went down.
    Regarding the Turkish plane that was shot down. US intelligence states that the Turkish plane was in Syrian airspace.

    "U.S. intelligence indicates that a Turkish warplane shot down by Syrian forces was most likely hit by shore-based antiaircraft guns while it was inside Syrian airspace, American officials said, a finding in tune with Syria's account and at odds with Turkey." (Doubts Cast on Turkish Account of Jet Incident - WSJ.com)


    See this as well (Turkish jet was downed in Syrian airspace, U.S. officials indicate - PanARMENIAN.Net).
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    Re: Turkey scrambles jets as Syrian choppers near border

    On the face of it, this is not a particularly dangerous situation as opposed to could it would be. Turkey's primary purpose for scrambling its jets is to save face, not to direct protect its borders from any hostile action. One of its fighter jets was shot down and it doesn't want to look weak to Syria, the rest of the world, and especially its people. Therefore it has to show an increase in vigilance.

    Syria on the other hand is operation on and around the Turkish-Syrian border because, like in Afghanistan, insurgents are using the border as a safe zone where they cannot be engaged by Syrian forces without a costly diplomatic price. However unlike Pakistan and the United States, Turkey is capable of actually effectively engaging foreign forces that cross its border and may do so to save face, or in the act of self defense. Syria has no interest in attacking Turkey which is why I believe the shoot down of the fighter jet was a real accident.

    What Syria does have an interest in is attacking insurgents, which again often cross the border seeking protection in the hopes that Syria won't take the risk if the reward isn't great enough and cross an international border with their military. Back when Saddam was fighting the Kurds in Northern Iraq, his troops would frequently cross the border into Turkey however it was done in small numbers, was a brief stay, didn't go far into Turkey, and they were attacking Kurds which are also the Turk's enemy more or less. As a result, Turkey didn't care so much. The Syrian insurgents are not enemies of Turkey directly like the Kurds were, although they aren't exactly friends either because they strain local resources as well as bring fighting with them, however their cause its not directly opposed to Turkey's national interests which means that while they are probably a bother for Turkey they aren't as big of a problem as the Kurds are.

    What this means for Syria is they have to tread even lighter when crossing a border, the Turks will be less forgiving for border crossing than they were against the Iraqis for killing Kurds. And again since Syria has no interest in attacking Turkey, we must assume that they are at, on, and over the border to hunt insurgents, and if they want to have Turkey look the other way for the most part they are going to have to play it very very very carefully since the Turks don't share an enemy here with the Syrians like they did with the Iraqis. Therefore I don't think Syria is going to intentionally start trouble with Turkey by undertaking cross border missions that may kill Turkish civilians or destroy Turkish infrastructure, and of course Turkey has no interest in attacking Syria so as long as the Syrians are cautious, which is there only way to hopefully be ignored in future cross border insurgent hunts, there shouldn't be any Turkish/Syrian fighting.

    HOWEVER, accidents can happen whether Syrian copter shoots a rocket across the border that blows up a Turkish home thought to hold Syrian insurgents, or a Turkish aircraft spies a Syrian copter getting too close and shoots it down. Or a number of other things that can happen to worsen this situation.

    But we can be fairly certain there is no intent on either side to commit violence against the other in an aggressive manner.

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    Re: Turkey scrambles jets as Syrian choppers near border

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Yeah, I'm not liking this much at all. If Turkey and Syria go to war, NATO might be forced to get involved in something we really, really should stay the hell out of. I don't know what kind of game the Syrian government is playing, but it's damned dangereous to militarily taunt a neighbor while it's already embroiled in civil war. I don't understand what positive result Syria could possibly expect from this.
    You are a little bit mistaken there.Turkey is not in a civil war.But it is a struggle with a terrorist organization.

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    Re: Turkey scrambles jets as Syrian choppers near border

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Regarding the Turkish plane that was shot down. US intelligence states that the Turkish plane was in Syrian airspace.

    "U.S. intelligence indicates that a Turkish warplane shot down by Syrian forces was most likely hit by shore-based antiaircraft guns while it was inside Syrian airspace, American officials said, a finding in tune with Syria's account and at odds with Turkey." (Doubts Cast on Turkish Account of Jet Incident - WSJ.com)

    See this as well (Turkish jet was downed in Syrian airspace, U.S. officials indicate - PanARMENIAN.Net).
    If that's the case, I wish somebody would say where the wreckage was found. Was it inside the 12 mile limit? That's critical to know.
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    Re: Turkey scrambles jets as Syrian choppers near border

    Quote Originally Posted by pentagram83 View Post
    You are a little bit mistaken there.Turkey is not in a civil war.But it is a struggle with a terrorist organization.
    I did not say Turkey was in a civil war. I said Syria is engaged in a civil war, and it is.

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    Re: Turkey scrambles jets as Syrian choppers near border

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post


    Turkey scrambles jets as Syrian choppers near border - CNN.com

    This could get very ugly if this continues.

    And just for the lulz.

    The best part of this is the Batman reference. Apparently, you can go there to attend Batman University, which sounds awesome.


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