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SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

ttwtt78640 said:
LOL. More opinion and SLANTED surveys praising gov't programs, by those getting the benefit of gov't programs.
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I'm very satisfied with my SSDI and Texas High Risk poll insurance.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

AdamT said:
Rather, any poll or survey that disagrees with you is automaticall slanted and therefore invalid. :roll:

But in fact, Medicare is not FREE. People paid for it with their payroll taxes, and many pay significant additional premiums. I was shocked when my father told me how much he pays for he and my mother.
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Anyone that thinks Medicare is a free ride for health care hasn't talked with any one living on Medicare.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

AdamT said:
Rather, any poll or survey that disagrees with you is automaticall slanted and therefore invalid. :roll:

But in fact, Medicare is not FREE. People paid for it with their payroll taxes, and many pay significant additional premiums. I was shocked when my father told me how much he pays for he and my mother.
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You would be much more shocked to see what private insurance would cost them, if it is even available. I know that medicare is not free and does not cover 100% of medical costs but neither does private insurance. For the same cost as medicare there IS no private insurance equivalent, so that is an apples to moonrocks comparison. The poll you cited simply affirms that medicare beats nothing, as I am sure that it does. ;-)
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Albert Di Salvo said:
Your side's plans have a lot of moving parts don't they. What does your experience tell you about working with the federal bureaucracy? I used to be a federal bureaucrat. That experience helped shape my view on this subject.

The universe of health care is finite and exhaustible. Anything that is finite can be spread too thin when it is overwhelmed.
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And yet...this theory is not borne out by the experience of any other country in the world.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Kandahar said:
And yet...this theory is not borne out by the experience of any other country in the world.
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Do you believe in the Parable of the Loaves and Fishes? I don't.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Kandahar said:
Hopefully states will be encouraged to open more medical schools and break the AMA's monopolistic reign of terror over our health care system. We can also allow more doctors to immigrate to the United States; this costs virtually nothing.
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Sounds like a plan, except for the "hopefully" part. We can't operate this gargantuan program on hope.

We will, once this is being utilized by the "people", need these doctors sooner than later, or grab a ticket and wait for them to call your number.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Albert Di Salvo said:
How is it possible to expand coverage, increase availability, and reduce costs at the same time?
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Jackpot!!!! Someone that isn't going to buy into the BS.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Billy the Kid said:
Sounds like a plan, except for the "hopefully" part. We can't operate this gargantuan program on hope.
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If the insurance mandate created by conservatives as an alternative to UHC doesn't work then there will be no alternative left but to upgrade to UHC like the rest of the industrialized world.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Phys251 said:
So what's the latest Republican excuse for hoping that poor people get sick and die? Anything new, or is it the same-old same-old?
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sameo,sameo.Die and die quickly.If your a dem die before next nov.:2wave:
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

AdamT said:
Obamacare expanded existing electronic records requirements. My doctor's office just started using tablets and laptops last year to get ahead of the curve. Pretty cool, actually. All of you information is right there and easier to access than a paper file. Eventually this will reduce costs by eleminating a lot of clerical work, and it should improve care as doctors are able to share patient records and avoid drug interactions.

And ultimately it will hopefully provide a gigantic database that the medical community can use to study treatments and outcomes, thus improving health care and lowering costs.
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like the VA implemented this several years ago.Anyplace in the country/world?,your medical record instantly.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Redress said:
So your imagined scenario based entirely on your predisposition to think the worst is the real world now. Interesting.
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No, based on your many posts I doubt you ever held an executive position at a major corporation, or have seen upclose how they base decisions. I am not using a worst case scenario. Look to studies done by companies like McKinsey and see how many people they expect to be kicked off employer based plans.

But then again, I try to see things as they may be and not rosy glasses of a hard boiled partisan.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

washunut said:
No, based on your many posts I doubt you ever held an executive position at a major corporation, or have seen upclose how they base decisions. I am not using a worst case scenario. Look to studies done by companies like McKinsey and see how many people they expect to be kicked off employer based plans.
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:roll:
Why exactly is it a bad thing if people get kicked off of employer-based plans and have to purchase an individual plan instead? Employer-based plans are a big part of the problem.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

washunut said:
No, based on your many posts I doubt you ever held an executive position at a major corporation, or have seen upclose how they base decisions. I am not using a worst case scenario. Look to studies done by companies like McKinsey and see how many people they expect to be kicked off employer based plans.

But then again, I try to see things as they may be and not rosy glasses of a hard boiled partisan.
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Links, please.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Boo Radley said:
You didn't link a study there either.
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I tried to. My son showed me how to post a story but I am not good at it. If you go to google and ask about the Mckinsey study on health care reform it is there.

You have probably read the study results before no doubt. Not sure that Catawba has.
 
You should know this:

The survey was not intended as a predictive economic analysis of the impact of the Affordable Care Act. Rather, it captured the attitudes of employers and provided an understanding of the factors that could influence decision making related to employee health benefits.


As such, our survey results are not comparable to the healthcare research and analysis conducted by others such as the Congressional Budget Office, RAND and the Urban Institute. Each of those studies employed economic modeling, not opinion surveys, and focused on the impact of healthcare reform on individuals, not employer attitudes.

US employer healthcare survey | McKinsey & Company


I'm not sure this is very valuable.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Kandahar said:
:roll:
Why exactly is it a bad thing if people get kicked off of employer-based plans and have to purchase an individual plan instead? Employer-based plans are a big part of the problem.
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1. why would employer based plans be part of the problem?

2. the concern might be the quality of plans they might find on the individual market. Currently, they leave something to be desired, and again, the means to address this in the ACA seems questionable
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

I would love to believe this Dem HC plan is gonna be all "great and wonderul", but I can't. Those taxpapers who pay the bills, 52%, will eventually have to pay for those 30-40+ million people who don't have healthcare. It can't happen any other way. We are always sold with "this is going to fix the problem", but it never happens. It always, always falls on the backs of the middle class and so will this crap bill.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Dr. Chuckles said:
1. why would employer based plans be part of the problem?

2. the concern might be the quality of plans they might find on the individual market. Currently, they leave something to be desired, and again, the means to address this in the ACA seems questionable
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Any "plan" that separates the customer from having ANY care about the cost of goods and services is part of the problem. If medical treatment is "free", or all procedures cost a $20 co-pay, then do YOU care if the REAL bill (paid by insurance) is $100 or $1000? You will NEVER "shop around" if you have an employer provided plan (that costs you maybe 25% of its "real" costs) that tells you to use doctor X, hospital Y and specialists from list Z. You probably spend more time deciding which brand of toilet paper or dish soap to buy than whether to get medical care for an ailment from clinic A or clinic B. You do not CARE because you have "insurance" that makes YOUR out of pocket cost the same, whether that clinic charges $100 or $500 to your insurance. It is the lack of consumer awareness that allows ALL medical care to cost "whatever", and we just accept that it went up 9.6% in a year.
 
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Boo Radley said:
You should know this:

The survey was not intended as a predictive economic analysis of the impact of the Affordable Care Act. Rather, it captured the attitudes of employers and provided an understanding of the factors that could influence decision making related to employee health benefits.


As such, our survey results are not comparable to the healthcare research and analysis conducted by others such as the Congressional Budget Office, RAND and the Urban Institute. Each of those studies employed economic modeling, not opinion surveys, and focused on the impact of healthcare reform on individuals, not employer attitudes.

US employer healthcare survey | McKinsey & Company


I'm not sure this is very valuable.
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Could you provide the internal methodology, and formulas used to achieve the conclusions, and the exact differences between the studies you like, and those you don't?

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
 
j-mac said:
Could you provide the internal methodology, and formulas used to achieve the conclusions, and the exact differences between the studies you like, and those you don't?

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
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McKinsey just explained it themselves. :shrug:
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Dr. Chuckles said:
1. why would employer based plans be part of the problem?
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By tying your health care needs to your employer, people become dependent on that employer. Getting laid off (even aside from the salary loss), could be absolutely devastating and wipe out your entire life savings. This, in turn, makes employees less likely to leave their jobs to start a business, get an education, or find a job where they can be more productive. Employer based plans reduce worker mobility and increase risk aversion.

2. the concern might be the quality of plans they might find on the individual market. Currently, they leave something to be desired, and again, the means to address this in the ACA seems questionable
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Yes, the quality of plans on the individual market is indeed a big problem right now. I was shopping for an individual plan a couple years ago...most of them are terrible and virtually all of them are unreliable. The ACA addresses this by mandating procedures that they must cover, banning rescission and other abuses, and gathering them all in one place (on a health insurance exchange). This allows consumers to easily compare plans based upon just a few variables (e.g. premiums, deductibles, out of pocket maximums), which isn't really possible under the present system unless you are a doctor and/or an actuary.

That seems like a pretty good way to address the problem to me...it eliminates most of the main problems with individual health care plans that exist now. What do you dislike about it?
 
Boo Radley said:
You should know this:

The survey was not intended as a predictive economic analysis of the impact of the Affordable Care Act. Rather, it captured the attitudes of employers and provided an understanding of the factors that could influence decision making related to employee health benefits.


As such, our survey results are not comparable to the healthcare research and analysis conducted by others such as the Congressional Budget Office, RAND and the Urban Institute. Each of those studies employed economic modeling, not opinion surveys, and focused on the impact of healthcare reform on individuals, not employer attitudes.

US employer healthcare survey | McKinsey & Company


I'm not sure this is very valuable.
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Well you can put your reliance on either an economic the CBO models or what executives who happen to be the decision makers tell a consultant.

All are guesses, so you can pick which you want to believe.
 
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