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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

  1. #981
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    Bronson already answered you. Thus your link is debunked.

    Good job Gimmie.
    LOL....so Billy, are you going to realize a profit of over $250K on your sale?

    If not, you need not worry, this won't affect you.

    If it does......sniff....I'm so sorry...sniff....really sorry....sniff.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    LOL....so Billy, are you going to realize a profit of over $250K on your sale?

    If not, you need not worry, this won't affect you.

    If it does......sniff....I'm so sorry...sniff....really sorry....sniff.




    Like I'm going to give out any personal info on the World Wide Web.





    But please, Gimmie, don't let me stop you from doing so.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    No your in the group that hasn't read the bill, so read it. Don't rely on others to do your footwork. Not only will you be better off, you'll find out this bill is a TAX.
    no, you are part of the group that make specious comments without any legitimate basis
    you have again been exposed
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    "The Crossroads GPS ad simply ignores these very real tax cuts — and points to the health care law instead. To back up the claim that 18 taxes are being raised, the ad cites on screen an analysis by the conservative Heritage Foundation.

    But of the $503 billion in taxes listed by the Heritage document, $210 billion falls specifically on individuals making more than $200,000 a year, or couples making over $250,000. And we count another $190 billion that falls only on businesses, including corporations in general, or in particular on health insurance companies, pharmaceutical manufacturers and importers, makers of medical devices and even producers of biofuels.

    To be sure, some unknown portion of the taxes that fall directly on individuals would be paid by persons who are below Obama’s promised threshold. For example, a 10 percent tax on indoor tanning services went into effect in 2010.

    But several taxes would affect only persons with income high enough to claim itemized deductions on their federal income tax returns. For example, $15 billion is to come from limiting deductions for medical expenses to the amount exceeding 10 percent of adjusted gross income (up from 7.5 percent currently). That doesn’t go into effect until 2013, and is the largest tax increase that applies only to individuals. And high-income persons are far more likely to itemize than low-income or middle-income persons, so much if not most of the $15 billion will be paid by those not covered by Obama’s promise.

    Another $13 billion would come from limiting the amount of money that can be put into tax-advantaged flexible spending accounts to $2,500 a year. That won’t take effect until 2013, and of course would affect only those with enough income to set aside thousands of dollars in such accounts.

    Although not mentioned by the ad, Obama also signed legislation in February 2009 that raised tobacco taxes, which are regressive taxes that fall more heavily on low-income smokers. The bill raised the federal tax on a pack of cigarettes by 61 cents to $1 per pack to pay for an expansion of the Children’s Health Insurance Program.

    Mandate = Tax Increase?

    The Heritage tax figure includes $65 billion that comes from penalties to be paid by larger businesses that choose not to offer coverage for workers, and by individuals who don’t meet the law’s mandate to obtain coverage. The law doesn’t label those penalties a tax, and the president has argued that the individual penalties are “absolutely not a tax increase,” and therefore don’t break his promise. But that’s a matter of opinion. In fact, the administration’s lawyers argued before the Supreme Court that the mandate penalties are taxes, and the justices have yet to decide that legal point. So for now, we’ll leave it to our readers to judge whether those penalties would violate Obama’s promise on taxes.

    What we can say is that the $65 billion in penalties would fall mostly on businesses, not individuals. And they don’t take effect until 2014.

    Heritage didn’t attempt to break down the $65 billion figure, so we contacted the paper’s author, Curtis Dubay, who told us via email that he drew the figure from a Congressional Budget Office estimate from March 20, 2010. The figure for “Penalty Payments by Employers and Uninsured Individuals” appears in Table 2.

    But how much of that is from individuals? We found the answer in Table 4 — $17 billion. Or about $4 billion a year once fully phased in.

    That estimate was too low. In fairness to Crossroads GPS and Heritage, we must note that the CBO has since increased its estimate and figures that in 2019 — the last year covered by the original estimate — individuals will pay $7 billion in penalties, not $4 billion. And CBO now figures that would rise to $9 billion in 2022.

    But that’s a tiny future increase compared with the tax cuts Obama has already delivered, including an estimated $120 billion in 2012 alone from the 2 percentage point cut in payroll taxes. And so we judge the Crossroads claim that this promise was broken to be mostly false, and its use of a $503 billion figure that is mostly to be paid by businesses and high-income individuals to be simply dishonest.

    Footnote: We are still researching the other claims in this ad and will address them at a later time in a separate posting."

    FactCheck.org : A Bogus Tax Attack Against Obama
    The ever present and moronic argument used by Obama and the left is that taxes on "rich people", corporations and businesses are not going to affect the "little guy". This is the great lie of the left used to fool people, just as it did you. FACT is that taxation of those that produce goods or provide services (simply viewed as an added business cost) WILL BE passed on as increased prices for those goods and services, thus PAID FOR by all. The poor spend a much larger proportion of their income on goods and services, than the rich, therefore they are hit by this hidden and invisable tax called INFLATION, the cruelest and most regressive form of taxation imaginable.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    no, you are part of the group that make specious comments without any legitimate basis
    you have again been exposed
    Right.

    Did you start reading the Obamacare bill yet?

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post


    Like I'm going to give out any personal info on the World Wide Web.





    But please, Gimmie, don't let me stop you from doing so.
    LOL....your claim was that YOU would be taxed on the sale of your home, I showed you probably won't be.....and your defense is NOW to say you don't want to talk about your private life?


    Whatever Billy, self contradiction is your MO lately.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  7. #987
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The ever present and moronic argument used by Obama and the left is that taxes on "rich people", corporations and businesses are not going to affect the "little guy". This is the great lie of the left used to fool people, just as it did you. FACT is that taxation of those that produce goods or provide services (simply viewed as an added business cost) WILL BE passed on as increased prices for those goods and services, thus PAID FOR by all. The poor spend a much larger proportion of their income on goods and services, than the rich, therefore they are hit by this hidden and invisable tax called INFLATION, the cruelest and most regressive form of taxation imaginable.
    That argument only applies to business, and the amount of the taxation to business is small in relation to the total economy along with the fact that the cost to consumers is spread out over a very wide area and time frame. Don't like the tax on tanning salons? Go outside and get a tan. Don't like the hike on cigarettes? Stop smoking. The direct effects of these increases are very small and are more than offset by the cost controls, increases in the size of insurance pools, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  8. #988
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    You realize you attempting to get the Dems up to snuff is a waste of your time. But I give you credit for trying.


    I heard this morning on the local news that 40+% of US citizens didn't know the HC bill had been ruled on as of yesterday. Sad indictment on the public, IMO.
    It is amazing that for every FACT that you provide they have a spin that makes it OK, usually that it will effect only a "rich guy", corporation or business, as if those folks don't just pass along the costs of all taxes, fees and regulations as increased prices for the goods and services that they provide, sticking those at the bottom, consumers, with the REAL cost of all taxation. Fools on the left can never see this simple truth; the more that the gov't takes the less the little guy has UNLESS the gov't gives them some back. The goal of the left, in a democratic republic, is to have more tax benefit getting voters than tax payers, after that, the game of democracy is over.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    I would love to believe this Dem HC plan is gonna be all "great and wonderul", but I can't. Those taxpapers who pay the bills, 52%, will eventually have to pay for those 30-40+ million people who don't have healthcare. It can't happen any other way. We are always sold with "this is going to fix the problem", but it never happens. It always, always falls on the backs of the middle class and so will this crap bill.
    They are paying for them now, before reform. I don't think this is wonderful, but keeping the status quo, where we're not only paying, but paying a lot, doesn't seem like something those worrying about paying for others should want to go back to.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    The only myth being tossed around this thread is the whopper by liberals claiming that Obamacare isn't a tax.
    Better let the mittens campaign in on the news, their still calling it a penalty.

    <A senior adviser to Mitt Romney appeared to undercut a central argument Republicans hope to use between now and the November election against President Obama — that although his signature health care reform law may be constitutional, it amounts to a tax.>

    Romney Campaign Calls Obamacare A Penalty Not A Tax - ABC News
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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