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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

  1. #951
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Yes, the quality of plans on the individual market is indeed a big problem right now. I was shopping for an individual plan a couple years ago...most of them are terrible and virtually all of them are unreliable. The ACA addresses this by mandating procedures that they must cover, banning rescission and other abuses, and gathering them all in one place (on a health insurance exchange). This allows consumers to easily compare plans based upon just a few variables (e.g. premiums, deductibles, out of pocket maximums), which isn't really possible under the present system unless you are a doctor and/or an actuary.
    Even with banning recissions, and such, most individual plans are pretty ****ty, because the complete lack of pooling. And while I am aware the exchanges are meant to address this, that still seems like a highly questionable solution

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    By tying your health care needs to your employer, people become dependent on that employer. Getting laid off (even aside from the salary loss), could be absolutely devastating and wipe out your entire life savings. This, in turn, makes employees less likely to leave their jobs to start a business, get an education, or find a job where they can be more productive. Employer based plans reduce worker mobility and increase risk aversion.



    Yes, the quality of plans on the individual market is indeed a big problem right now. I was shopping for an individual plan a couple years ago...most of them are terrible and virtually all of them are unreliable. The ACA addresses this by mandating procedures that they must cover, banning rescission and other abuses, and gathering them all in one place (on a health insurance exchange). This allows consumers to easily compare plans based upon just a few variables (e.g. premiums, deductibles, out of pocket maximums), which isn't really possible under the present system unless you are a doctor and/or an actuary.

    That seems like a pretty good way to address the problem to me...it eliminates most of the main problems with individual health care plans that exist now. What do you dislike about it?
    The PPACA should eliminate the non-taxable status of employer provided medical care insurance and treat it as what it is; part of a 100% taxable employee compensation package. After all, PPACA was justified under the INCOME TAX LAW by the SCOTUS. To demand that John Q. Public spend ANY of their after tax wages on medical care insurance while allowing 85% of the population to NOT do so, as they get it at work, is INSANE. The taxation of employers for NOT providing this benefit, is far worse than the individual mandate, as it punishes businesses that can not afford it (or choose not to) while rewarding those that do, the EXACT opposite of your desire to separate medical care insurance from the workplace. PPACA goes in many OPPOSITE directions, as all congressional legislation is want do do, as many different and competing lobbyists help to make this mess of a law. The fact that the federal gov't, by law, makes federal employees pay only 25% of the REAL cost of their medical care insurance premiums, while demanding that private employers pay 8% to 9.8% of employees income for medical care insurance premiums, or pay a tax/fine/penalty. In other words, give ALL of your uninsured employees a pay raise or pay a fine, how THAT can be constitutional is AMAZING.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #953
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The PPACA should eliminate the non-taxable status of employer provided medical care insurance and treat it as what it is; part of a 100% taxable employee compensation package.
    I agree, that would be a step in the right direction. PPACA opens the door to that by taxing "Cadillac plans," but ideally all employer health insurance should be counted as taxable income.

    The taxation of employers for NOT providing this benefit, is far worse than the individual mandate, as it punishes businesses that can not afford it (or choose not to) while rewarding those that do, the EXACT opposite of your desire to separate medical care insurance from the workplace.
    Agreed.

    In other words, give ALL of your uninsured employees a pay raise or pay a fine, how THAT can be constitutional is AMAZING.
    Constitutional =/= Good policy.
    The employer mandate within PPACA is a fine example of a bad policy that nevertheless made its way into the law. Fortunately this is somewhat counterbalanced by the tax on "Cadillac plans," which is a good policy. But I agree that it will need to be fixed at some point in the future.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I agree, that would be a step in the right direction. PPACA opens the door to that by taxing "Cadillac plans," but ideally all employer health insurance should be counted as taxable income.



    Agreed.



    Constitutional =/= Good policy.
    The employer mandate within PPACA is a fine example of a bad policy that nevertheless made its way into the law. Fortunately this is somewhat counterbalanced by the tax on "Cadillac plans," which is a good policy. But I agree that it will need to be fixed at some point in the future.

    The Cadillac Plan will effect 33% of citizens, yes?

    If you sell your house and make money on it, what was the percentage of the tax, you'll have to pay on the gain you realized again?

    How come Unions are exempt? Why aren't they in the TAX group?

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I agree, that would be a step in the right direction. PPACA opens the door to that by taxing "Cadillac plans," but ideally all employer health insurance should be counted as taxable income.



    Agreed.



    Constitutional =/= Good policy.
    The employer mandate within PPACA is a fine example of a bad policy that nevertheless made its way into the law. Fortunately this is somewhat counterbalanced by the tax on "Cadillac plans," which is a good policy. But I agree that it will need to be fixed at some point in the future.
    It is robbery, pure and simple, and will hurt the already dismal employment picture by requiring employers to pay MORE for the same work. A low wage worker must pay only 2% for their "exchange" plan premium, yet their boss must pay about 8% more or $2000 whichever is less as a fine just to keep them hired on. I predict that this will not be good for the unemployment situation.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    The Cadillac Plan will effect 33% of citizens, yes?

    If you sell your house and make money on it, what was the percentage of the tax, you'll have to pay on the gain you realized again?

    How come Unions are exempt? Why aren't they in the TAX group?
    LOL Page down to the last page of this to see the "disorganizational" chart:

    http://www.sasany.org/wp-content/upl...CareReform.pdf
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-03-12 at 11:35 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    It is robbery, pure and simple, and will hurt the already dismal employment picture by requiring employers to pay MORE for the same work. A low wage worker must pay only 2% for their "exchange" plan premium, yet their boss must pay about 8% more or $2000 whichever is less as a fine just to keep them hired on. I predict that this will not be good for the unemployment situation.
    The law would certainly be improved by removing the employer mandate and treating all health benefits as taxable income, that's for sure. If this encourages more employers to drop coverage, great.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Obamacare expanded existing electronic records requirements. My doctor's office just started using tablets and laptops last year to get ahead of the curve. Pretty cool, actually. All of you information is right there and easier to access than a paper file. Eventually this will reduce costs by eleminating a lot of clerical work, and it should improve care as doctors are able to share patient records and avoid drug interactions.

    And ultimately it will hopefully provide a gigantic database that the medical community can use to study treatments and outcomes, thus improving health care and lowering costs.

    Coincidentally I saw my cardiologist yesterday for my bi-annual checkup.

    Checking in at the receptionist, there were a couple of things different. First, she asked for my pharmacy and which location. Then she scanned my ID and insurance card into her computer. In the past she made a photocopy of them and put them in my file and never asked for my pharmacy.

    Once in the exam room, I noticed a laptop that had not been there before. The nurse took my BP and pulse rate and entered them into the laptop. She asked all the other standard questions about medications, any changes etc. All went into the laptop. Then she did an EKG and it went directly into the laptop. In the past she had to make a paper printout of it to go into my file.

    Next the doctor came in with his bright shiny new slim lenovo thinkpad and my big ol' bulky paper file. During the visit all the information he referred to was on his thinkpad, including the lipid panel results that I had done about a month before. He never once looked at my paper file (I suspect he had them for backup).

    Then, - this is the part I really liked - he refilled my maintenance medications directly to my pharmacy from his thinkpad. Of course in the past I had to take the paper prescription, drop them off at the pharmacy and then come back later to pick them up. This saved me an annoying extra trip.

    Checking out, the receptionist printed out a description of my visit, my receipt for my co-pay, my appointments for a couple of routine tests that we do every year, and my next doctor's appointment. All on one sheet of paper. In the past, she would have given me three or four different pieces of paper, all handwritten.

    Yes, I did ask if this was because of the ACA and was told yes.

    None of this was in place six months ago.
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    The Cadillac Plan will effect 33% of citizens, yes?

    If you sell your house and make money on it, what was the percentage of the tax, you'll have to pay on the gain you realized again?

    How come Unions are exempt? Why aren't they in the TAX group?
    would you please point us to a cite which shows us that union employees are tax exempt regarding cadillac plans
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    It is robbery, pure and simple, and will hurt the already dismal employment picture by requiring employers to pay MORE for the same work. A low wage worker must pay only 2% for their "exchange" plan premium, yet their boss must pay about 8% more or $2000 whichever is less as a fine just to keep them hired on. I predict that this will not be good for the unemployment situation.
    Corporate profits are not the problem, they are at record levels. You also forget that employees are hired because they are needed to make the profits for the company. More money in employees pockets is GOOD for the employment situation, unlike corporations that are sitting on trillions, employees will SPEND the extra cash.

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