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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    This is incorrect. PPACA includes funding for helping the health care industry modernize its record-keeping system by moving to electronic records, and creating standardized forms that are common to *all* insurance companies rather than a patchwork system.
    This was already done with the HIPAA Act. I know, I've been helping doctors and hospitals convert to electronic records for almost a decade now.

    The health insurance industry long ago created a system of standardized forms. The hospitals and doctors offices use them all the time now.

    All the PPACA adds is more levels of bureaucracy.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    So what's the latest Republican excuse for hoping that poor people get sick and die? Anything new, or is it the same-old same-old?
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No they have not. This is the most recent calculation that they have performed on the cost of all provisions.
    Yes, Obamacare's costs have almost doubled | WashingtonExaminer.com



    I've already debunked this numerous times in this thread, but what the hell, I'll do it again. The ten-year *cost* increases each year as we get closer to the actual implementation in 2014 (as anyone who understands accounting/finance always knew that it would, including the CBO). But the *impact on the budget* does not. This is because revenues from the Affordable Care Act are projected to exceed the costs, for every year into the foreseeable future except for a small deficit in 2015-2018.
    You're repeating Ezra Klein talking points

    Health-care law will add $340 billion to deficit, new study finds - The Washington Post

    Ezra makes a big deal about the fact the 2012 CBO report shows that the "net" costs of Obamacare actually went down $50 billion. But that "net cost" reduction comes almost entirely from increases in the mandate fines paid by individuals and employers. So in 2010, the CBO estimated that Americans would only pay $17 billion in individual mandate fines. The 2012 estimate has that number up to $54 billion. In 2010, the CBO estimated that American employers would pay only $52 billion in mandate fines. In 2012, that number is up to $113 billion.
    CBO and JCT’s projections of health insurance coverage have also changed since last March. Fewer people are now expected to obtain health insurance coverage from their employer or in insurance exchanges; more are now expected to obtain coverage from Medicaid or CHIP or from nongroup or other sources. More are expected to be uninsured. The extent of the changes varies from year to year, but in 2016, for example, the ACA is now estimated to reduce the number of people receiving health insurance coverage through an employer by an additional 4 million enrollees relative to the March 2011 projections. In that year, CBO and JCT now estimate that there will be 2 million fewer enrollees in insurance exchanges. In the other direction, CBO and JCT now estimate that, in 2016, the ACA will increase enrollment in Medicaid and CHIP slightly more than previously estimated (but considerably more in 2014 and 2015), and it will reduce the number of people with nongroup or other coverage by 3 million less and the number of uninsured people by 2 million less than previously estimated.
    Liberals are all trying to have the HC Debate again now that this turkey is once again under a microscope as a massive tax increase. They are failing miserably

    So on the one hand, we have the CBO's estimates. On the other hand, we have your completely uninformed opinion.
    The CBO also claims that fewer people will be covered than first thought. Are they uninformed?

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    You certainly seem to have an irrational hatred for PPACA on any and all grounds you can think of...especially considering you 1) don't seem to understand what's in the law very well, and 2) would benefit from it immensely, given your circumstances.
    I understand plenty. It is not personal greed, as you well know, that drives my skepticism, but knowledge of the CURRENT gov't run medical programs of medicaid, medicare and the VA. Having countless people tell me how wonderfull PPACA is, yet it does not REPLACE any (NOT ONE) of these cronically ill EXISTING gov't messes is not a good "first step", IMHO. Just as welfare started small and as a part of a single federal dept., it has now morphed into a HUGE expense, kept well hidden by spreading it accross numerous dept's and agencies, and now having 12 MAJOR components. PPACA is starting out like that, so it is sure to be mismanaged beyond belief, from day one, and get worse as it is "fixed". Using a small and incremental approach would be better method of "reform", starting with allowing medical care insurance to be sold nationwide, with MORE options, direct free market competition, fewer minimum and maximum benefit limits and allowing the PEOPLE to select what they want.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-02-12 at 04:44 PM.
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2


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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    This was already done with the HIPAA Act. I know, I've been helping doctors and hospitals convert to electronic records for almost a decade now.

    The health insurance industry long ago created a system of standardized forms. The hospitals and doctors offices use them all the time now.

    All the PPACA adds is more levels of bureaucracy.
    Obamacare expanded existing electronic records requirements. My doctor's office just started using tablets and laptops last year to get ahead of the curve. Pretty cool, actually. All of you information is right there and easier to access than a paper file. Eventually this will reduce costs by eleminating a lot of clerical work, and it should improve care as doctors are able to share patient records and avoid drug interactions.

    And ultimately it will hopefully provide a gigantic database that the medical community can use to study treatments and outcomes, thus improving health care and lowering costs.
    Last edited by AdamT; 07-02-12 at 04:41 PM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I understand plenty. It is not personal greed that drives my skepicism, but knowledge of the CURRENT gov't run medical programs of medicaid, medcare and the VA. Having countless people tell me how wonderfull PPACA is yet that it does not REPLACE any of these cronically ill EXISTING gov't messes is not a good "first step", IMHO. Just as welfare started small and as a part of a single federal dept., it has now morphed into a HUGE expense kept well hidden by spreading accross numerous dept's and agencies now having 12 MAJOR components. PPACA is starting out like that, so it is sure to be mismanaged beyond belief, from day one, and get worse as it is "fixed". Using a small and incremental approach would be better method of "reform", starting with allowing medical care insurance to be sold nationwide, with MORE options, fewer minimum and maximum benefit limits and allowing the PEOPLE to select what they want.
    Have a friend who went to work at the va after 9/11 (he's a Muslim immigrant and saw it as a way of giving back and establish good interfaith relations), and the entire time he complained about how he felt prevented from adequately treating his patients, due to the unnecessary amounts paperwork and regulations

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Have a friend who went to work at the va after 9/11 (he's a Muslim immigrant and saw it as a way of giving back and establish good interfaith relations), and the entire time he complained about how he felt prevented from adequately treating his patients, due to the unnecessary amounts paperwork and regulations
    Did he work in private hospitals before? I ask because a friend of mine was a radiologist in the VA system for years, and then went to work in a private hospital. She was astonished at the amount of paperwork she had to deal with in the private system. Makes sense when you think about it, because they have to deal with dozens of insurance companies and plans, all of which have their own procedures and 'death panels".
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Did he work in private hospitals before?
    Yes, he worked in a private family practice and also did rounds at a hospital

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I understand plenty. It is not personal greed, as you well know, that drives my skepticism, but knowledge of the CURRENT gov't run medical programs of medicaid, medicare and the VA. Having countless people tell me how wonderfull PPACA is, yet it does not REPLACE any (NOT ONE) of these cronically ill EXISTING gov't messes is not a good "first step", IMHO. Just as welfare started small and as a part of a single federal dept., it has now morphed into a HUGE expense, kept well hidden by spreading it accross numerous dept's and agencies, and now having 12 MAJOR components. PPACA is starting out like that, so it is sure to be mismanaged beyond belief, from day one, and get worse as it is "fixed". Using a small and incremental approach would be better method of "reform", starting with allowing medical care insurance to be sold nationwide, with MORE options, direct free market competition, fewer minimum and maximum benefit limits and allowing the PEOPLE to select what they want.
    And yet, Medicare and the VA generally get higher satisfaction ratings than the private system....

    For example: http://www.nationaljournal.com/njonl...ance--20090629
    Last edited by AdamT; 07-02-12 at 04:57 PM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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