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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I've only got one question about insurance, what do they provide besides taking a slice of money out of the system? They're not a doctor, nurse, technician or any kind of health service they simply get in between the patient and their medical providers for a fee driving up medical costs. How would not eliminating them not bring down costs?
    Eliminating them completely is not needed, reducing the paperwork overhead (woops, PPACA increases it) would help a lot. The primary difference in medical care insurance and ALL other forms of insurance is the frequency of claims. Insurance is for the rare, unexpected and expensive events in life. Auto insurance does not cover tune-ups, oil changes or flat tires, it is used for collision and injury claims only. Homeowners insurance doe s not cover a worn out sofa, broken clothes dryer or lawn maintanence, it is used for storm/fire damage and personal injury claims only. A "catastrophic" medical care policy would be much the same, a high annual deductable policy that pays 100% of claims above that amount is very affordable, and requires only minor paperwork overhead, much like auto/homeowners insurance.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-02-12 at 04:04 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Were the death panels ruled constitutional?
    No - CEO death panels are banned after 2014. LMAO!!

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Eliminating them completely is not needed, reducing the paperwork overhead (woops, PPACA increases it) would help a lot.
    This is incorrect. PPACA includes funding for helping the health care industry modernize its record-keeping system by moving to electronic records, and creating standardized forms that are common to *all* insurance companies rather than a patchwork system.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Oh, I agree. I'm all for cutting private insurance companies out of the loop entirely, but there doesn't seem to be enough congressional support for that. Nevertheless, 20% is the MAXIMUM they're allowed to spend on things other than medical care, which is at least a step in the right direction. Prior to PPACA, there were no financial restrictions on them at all.
    the PPACA INCREASES the use of insurance so if they were not yet at 20% overhead you can BET that they ALL will be now; it even OUTLAWED "catastrophic" medical care insuurance, the most affordable and lowest overhead medical care insurance policies offered.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Eliminating them completely is not needed, reducing the paperwork overhead (woops, PPACA increases it) would help a lot. The primary difference in medical care insurance and ALL other forms of insurance is the frequency of claims. Insurance is for the rare, unexpected and expensive events in life. Auto insurance does not cover tune-ups, oil changes or flat tires, it is used for collision and injury claims only. Homeowners insurance doe s not cover a worn out sofa, broken clothes dryer or lawn maintanence, it is used for storm/fire damage and personal injury claims only. A "catastrophic" medical care policy would be much the same, a high annual deductable policy that pays 100% of claims above that amount is very affordable, and requires only minor paperwork overhead, much like auto/homeowners insurance.
    I'll agree that in the form of catastrophic coverage for automobile, home or medical it can be an advantage. But for all the years people pay for those coverages a majority will pay more into the system, then they'll ever recover. And that's where the insurance co's get their profit, and their profit, and their profit. There was a time there were few insurance companies and it wasn't such a problem paying for products and services. Too costly(?) people didn't pay for them. When a department store or retail electronics company tries to sell me extended warranties on their products I say out loud with faux outrage "you mean the products you sell are defective to the point, where I need INSURANCE because of a lack of WARRANTY!"

    There is way too much gauging, waste, fraud and profiteering that shouldn't be.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    This is incorrect. PPACA includes funding for helping the health care industry modernize its record-keeping system by moving to electronic records, and creating standardized forms that are common to *all* insurance companies rather than a patchwork system.
    So, it will be as effecient and fraud free as the GSA, census, medicaid, medicare, SS and the IRS sytems are? LOL
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    So, it will be as effecient and fraud free as the GSA, census, medicaid, medicare, SS and the IRS sytems are? LOL
    You certainly seem to have an irrational hatred for PPACA on any and all grounds you can think of...especially considering you 1) don't seem to understand what's in the law very well, and 2) would benefit from it immensely, given your circumstances.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Expand coverage and increase availability - By providing more people with health insurance.

    Reduce costs - By giving the government more leverage over health care providers, by steering funding toward effective procedures, and by eliminating some of the hidden costs of having millions of uninsured people.
    From my understanding, many of the cost saving measures are rather questionable. Like the assumption that what is driving ER use is a lack of coverage, when reality seems to point to a lack of primary care, and inadequate care for those with chronic conditions. This is why Massachusetts has seen an increase in er use, even when the general trend of increased er use is taken into account

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I'll agree that in the form of catastrophic coverage for automobile, home or medical it can be an advantage. But for all the years people pay for those coverages a majority will pay more into the system, then they'll ever recover. And that's where the insurance co's get their profit, and their profit, and their profit. There was a time there were few insurance companies and it wasn't such a problem paying for products and services. Too costly(?) people didn't pay for them. When a department store or retail electronics company tries to sell me extended warranties on their products I say out loud with faux outrage "you mean the products you sell are defective to the point, where I need INSURANCE because of a lack of WARRANTY!"

    There is way too much gauging, waste, fraud and profiteering that shouldn't be.
    Unlike ANY other insurance product, medical care insurance is entirely run by cartels and monopolies secure in their state approved "exclusive" license agreements. Auto and homeowners markets are wide open and VERY competitive, advertising is rampant, so cost shopping is easy. Try that with medical care insurance and you get asked FIRST to enter your state or zip code. Hmm...

    Link: http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comp...?cat=5&ind=596
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-02-12 at 04:25 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Oh, I agree. I'm all for cutting private insurance companies out of the loop entirely, but there doesn't seem to be enough congressional support for that. Nevertheless, 20% is the MAXIMUM they're allowed to spend on things other than medical care, which is at least a step in the right direction. Prior to PPACA, there were no financial restrictions on them at all.
    Well, in fairness, Obama wasn't much help in pushing any such agenda, and seemed he was intent to avoid the health Care debate for as long as possible (IMO, his absence, and later lack of effective leadership, really highlighted some faults in this administration that seem to have defined his presidency)

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