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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Can you substantiate this?
    The CBO's most recent estimate of all provisions of the ACA and their budgetary impact, from February 2011:
    http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...pact_total.png

    Right now, the ACA is a net positive on the budget. It will continue to be a net positive until 2015, then dip into a deficit for a couple years, before returning to a surplus around 2017/2018.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-02-12 at 03:00 PM.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The CBO's most recent estimate of all provisions of the ACA and their budgetary impact, from February 2011:
    http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...pact_total.png

    Right now, the ACA is a net positive on the budget. It will continue to be a net positive until 2015, then dip into a deficit for a couple years, before returning to a surplus around 2017/2018.
    AH, so it is reducing the DEFICITS but not the DEBT...

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    At your income, PPACA will give you free or nearly-free health insurance and you won't pay any additional taxes. So what makes you think that the same isn't true of many other people too? Basically, with PPACA you'll come out massively ahead if you're older, sicker, and/or have a lower income. You'll come out slightly behind if you're young, healthy, and have a pretty good income. The only people who will come out substantially behind (in dollar terms) are those earning more than $250,000...and even those tax increases will only amount to 0.9% of their earned income.



    Well, that will be paid for via taxes too. In the absence of any legislation to the contrary, it's logical to assume that your share of the debt is roughly the same as your share of the tax burden. In any case, the CBO says that the Affordable Care Act will reduce the debt.
    This "logic" is very faulty, simply because more people will benefit than will APPEAR to be taxed is irrelevant. Taxes paid by "the rich" and by businesses are not paid by mere minor reductions in rediculously high profits, as many on the left pretend, they are simply passed along to all as inflation; higher prices for the same goods produced and services provided. Consumption is a higher percentage of income, as income levels go down, so those at the bottom income levels will EVENTUALLY pay all of the "invisible" taxes caused by inflation.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The CBO's most recent estimate of all provisions of the ACA and their budgetary impact, from February 2011:
    http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...pact_total.png

    Right now, the ACA is a net positive on the budget. It will continue to be a net positive until 2015, then dip into a deficit for a couple years, before returning to a surplus around 2017/2018.
    The CBO has revised their projections. You are using data where they weren't able to calculate Obamacare when it had actually taken effect yet. Obamacare will have 4 full years of tax increases and revenue allocation to pay for just 6 years of implementation. It's when you start calculating past all the front loaded money thrown at this turkey that the true cost starts to take shape.

    Obamacare will be no more positive to the budget than Medicare and Medicaid are. Trillions and trillions in unfunded liabilities. Not even a massive tax increase on the poor and middle class can make Obamacare a "net positive" to the budget.

    CBO: Obamacare to cost $1.76 trillion over 10 yrs | WashingtonExaminer.com

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    AH, so it is reducing the DEFICITS but not the DEBT...
    The debt is nothing more than the collective deficits, year after year. The ACA's budgetary impact is to reduce the deficit every year into the forseeable future, with the exception of a slight deficit from 2015-2018. Therefore it ALSO reduces the debt.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    The CBO has revised their projections.
    No they have not. This is the most recent calculation that they have performed on the cost of all provisions.

    You are using data where they weren't able to calculate Obamacare when it had actually taken effect yet. Obamacare will have 4 full years of tax increases and revenue allocation to pay for just 6 years of implementation. It's when you start calculating past all the front loaded money thrown at this turkey that the true cost starts to take shape.

    I've already debunked this numerous times in this thread, but what the hell, I'll do it again. The ten-year *cost* increases each year as we get closer to the actual implementation in 2014 (as anyone who understands accounting/finance always knew that it would, including the CBO). But the *impact on the budget* does not. This is because revenues from the Affordable Care Act are projected to exceed the costs, for every year into the foreseeable future except for a small deficit in 2015-2018.

    Obamacare will be no more positive to the budget than Medicare and Medicaid are. Trillions and trillions in unfunded liabilities. Not even a massive tax increase on the poor and middle class can make Obamacare a "net positive" to the budget.
    So on the one hand, we have the CBO's estimates. On the other hand, we have your completely uninformed opinion.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-02-12 at 03:20 PM.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The debt is nothing more than the collective deficits, year after year. The ACA's budgetary impact is to reduce the deficit every year into the forseeable future, with the exception of a slight deficit from 2015-2018. Therefore it ALSO reduces the debt.
    No, it reduces the increase in the debt. The debt does not go down one dollar therefore it does NOT ALSO reduces the debt.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    Listen you hate Romeny right? So you've got a dog in the Romney fight, yes? Thanks.
    Don't take my word for it. The Romney campaign said so, or do you believe that aliens from outer space played trick or treat in that video and substituted one of their own for Romney's spokesman?
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Taxes paid by "the rich" and by businesses are not paid by mere minor reductions in rediculously high profits, as many on the left pretend, they are simply passed along to all as inflation; higher prices for the same goods produced and services provided. Consumption is a higher percentage of income, as income levels go down, so those at the bottom income levels will EVENTUALLY pay all of the "invisible" taxes caused by inflation.
    That might be true if the money were being spent on some new good/service that the economy had not previously been counting (e.g. buying all Americans a new pony). But the cost of shoddy health care coverage has always been priced into our economy...we just pay for it in one of the least efficient ways possible. Rather than actually pay for those people to get health care, we've been paying for it in the form of decreased productivity (due to worker absenteeism and presenteeism), medical problems diagnosed too late (because people wait until they have a real emergency), reduced human capital (because people die earlier and stop working earlier), and increased risk aversion (because people are less willing to start a business or go back to school).

    These are all economic costs of the uninsured that have already been priced into our economy. Actually paying for them to get health care isn't some brand new cost that is just now being incurred.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    No, it reduces the increase in the debt. The debt does not go down one dollar therefore it does NOT ALSO reduces the debt.
    So it's the Affordable Care Act's fault if Congress decides to spend more than it earns on other things?
    That isn't how budgetary impacts are calculated.
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