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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

  1. #861
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Do you have some evidence to back up your claim that it would be cheaper to by unsubsidized private insurance and pay a fine than it would be to buy the least expensive subsidized insurance and not pay a fine?
    I imagine it would depend on your income level, wouldn't it? No, I'm not going to gather up information on every income level's potential savings by using alternative methods of insurance, primarily because I didn't say they would always be cheaper in the first place. I'm fairly confident, however, that there are plenty of people, based on income or otherwise, that would save money by doing so.
    One who makes himself a worm cannot complain when tread upon.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    I imagine it would depend on your income level, wouldn't it? No, I'm not going to gather up information on every income level's potential savings by using alternative methods of insurance, primarily because I didn't say they would always be cheaper in the first place. I'm fairly confident, however, that there are plenty of people, based on income or otherwise, that would save money by doing so.
    Your confidence seems to be based on no information at all.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Your confidence seems to be based on no information at all.
    You don't think catastrophic care with an additional 60 or so bucks a month added onto it won't be cheaper than other kinds of insurance for individuals above a certain income level?
    One who makes himself a worm cannot complain when tread upon.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So your imagined scenario based entirely on your predisposition to think the worst is the real world now. Interesting.
    If you dont plan for the worst, you are a damned fool.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Jobs will not stay relatively scarce.
    Obama has a net loss of jobs under his presidency

    Can you cite the jobs data that supports your assertion please. Thank you.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Im not completely negative on the bill there is one gigantic good thing in the bill.

    Pushing the tax credits for insurance to consumers rather than only allowing it to be used by large groups. That incentivizes the individual market which badly needs some cost changes. I would bet this could have passed by itself as a bill. This also helps incentivize small businesses to provide coverage as they will enjoy the same tax rebates. BADLY needed change to tax code. I see this as the biggest plus in the bill.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    I realize those on the board who don't agree with have attempted/will attempt to sway my thinking that this is not a TAX. You won't.

    Here's why? We were told/sold the HC Bill as not a TAX by the President, et al. The Justice Dept argued before the SCOTUS that this was a tax. The Supremes bought the whole taco ONLY because this law could be justified and upheld because it was a TAX.

    Now you're trying to sell me another "but wait this isn't what you think. . . . yada, yada". Well I personally am not going to fall for - "it's not a TAX" - bologna again. The President/Pelosi/Congress lied. And time will prove me right, this will eventually fall on the backs of taxpayers, just like every other TAX falls on the taxpayer.

    Believe whatever you want but I refuse to board this Titanic with you. It's a TAX.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    If you dont plan for the worst, you are a damned fool.
    If you plan for the worst you don't have to be worry about any insurance mandate.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    I realize those on the board who don't agree with have attempted/will attempt to sway my thinking that this is not a TAX. You won't.

    Here's why? We were told/sold the HC Bill as not a TAX by the President, et al. The Justice Dept argued before the SCOTUS that this was a tax. The Supremes bought the whole taco ONLY because this law could be justified and upheld because it was a TAX.

    Now you're trying to sell me another "but wait this isn't what you think. . . . yada, yada". Well I personally am not going to fall for - "it's not a TAX" - bologna again. The President/Pelosi/Congress lied. And time will prove me right, this will eventually fall on the backs of taxpayers, just like every other TAX falls on the taxpayer.

    Believe whatever you want but I refuse to board this Titanic with you. It's a TAX.
    Romney disagrees with you.

    TODD: The governor does not believe the mandate is a tax — that’s what you’re saying?

    FEHRNSTROM: The governor believes what we put in place in Massachusetts was a penalty and he disagrees with the Court’s ruling that the mandate was a tax. [...]

    TODD: But he agrees with the president that it is not — and he believes that you should not call the tax penalty a tax, you should call it a penalty or a fee or a fine?

    FEHRNSTROM: That’s correct. But the president also needs to be held accountable for his contradictory statements. He has described it variously as a penalty and as a tax. He needs to reconcile those two very different statements.
    Of course Mittens is a flip flopper and has referred to his own mandate as a tax penalty many times....
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Romney disagrees with you.



    Of course Mittens is a flip flopper and has referred to his own mandate as a tax penalty many times....


    It's a TAX and at the end of all the "he said, she said", the taxpaper is going to pay for this bill. You cannot, no way, no how, pay for 30-40 Million people without raising TAXES on the taxpaper. You the know TAXPAYER, those 52% that foot the bills now.

    Smoke and mirrors is being blown by the govt on this HC bill, and with their other hand they lift your wallet.

    Question for you. Who's gonna pay for the education for all those NEW doctors that will be needed? Here's my guess - the TAXPAPER.

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