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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Word is that Chief Justice Roberts is experiencing cognitive decline as a result of his epilepsy medicine. Medications have a helluva an impact on people's ability to think. That's why lots of lawyers and doctors ultimately decide to retire.
    I really dont find his decision all that horrible. Look, the federal government already has the power to compel us into programs like SS medicare and medicaid. What he said was that the government cannot compel us to buy a private product but could tax us if we dont. The state shouldnt IMHO, have that power, but they do and the have for years. Had the dems just voted to expand medicare to cover everyone, it would have been constitutional, so socialized medicine, while repugnant will certainly be found constitutional when it ultimately happens--which it will.

    As it stands, Obamacare is a tax plan and as such can be repealed by the people. If you want it gone, vote out Obama. If you dont want to be taxed by the state for not doing what they command, vote against liberals at every level. Taxes are harder to get through congress then some sneaky expansion of the commerce clause. But elections have consequences. Electing Obama and giving him super majorities in both houses was a big mistake. But it is not something that cant be undone.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Aren't they already being punished enough by having to live a life in poverty? While pile on more?
    Then it isnt about discouraging free loading as you claimed. Besides, the people who are going to be hit with the tax are the ones who dont buy health insurance. Many of those are "already being punished enough by having to live a life in poverty? While pile on more?"

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I wonder if Roberts was really sharp enough to do the old Chinese strategy of taking one step backward so as to take two steps forward. Maybe the CJ really stuck it to Obama in the long run
    I swear that was the FIRST thing I thought when I heard it was Roberts.

    Purely cynical, purely political, coldly calculated "sacrifice" play.

    Denies the Dems any "bump" from the ACA getting overturned. Twists the Tea Party types right up. Blood boiling as we enter the election season.

    Pretty tricky, I say.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I pay CASH and get all the care that I need, I pay my bills, I buy and take my medications and get HUGE cash discounts for doing so. The clinic that I use never even has to send me a bill, as I refuse to leave until I pay for that visit. They LIKE me there, and would help me in any way should I ask for it. They have even had me admitted to the hospital for surgery ($5,800) and I paid CASH for that as well (but it took 2.5 years). Paying cash is not impossible.
    $5,800 is a drop in the bucket compared to what you'll owe if you need a major medical procedure.

    I do not WANT gov't help, if I really needed it, then my family, friends and neighbors would try to raise it, as we all did for another neighbor whose entire house was recently destroyed by a lighting strike fire. People CAN DO much more than most think, if they are simply willing to TRY and help each other when in need, what goes around, comes around.
    Even the cost of replacing a house isn't as much as the cost of many medical procedures.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    I really dont find his decision all that horrible. Look, the federal government already has the power to compel us into programs like SS medicare and medicaid. What he said was that the government cannot compel us to buy a private product but could tax us if we dont. The state shouldnt IMHO, have that power, but they do and the have for years. Had the dems just voted to expand medicare to cover everyone, it would have been constitutional, so socialized medicine, while repugnant will certainly be found constitutional when it ultimately happens--which it will.

    As it stands, Obamacare is a tax plan and as such can be repealed by the people. If you want it gone, vote out Obama. If you dont want to be taxed by the state for not doing what they command, vote against liberals at every level. Taxes are harder to get through congress then some sneaky expansion of the commerce clause. But elections have consequences. Electing Obama and giving him super majorities in both houses was a big mistake. But it is not something that cant be undone.
    I think you're right about elections having consequences. Some consequences seem remote and difficult to anticipate. I think this legislation will have consequences that deeply divide the American people. I think Obama's victory will end up wounding American solidarity and social cohesion because of the treacherous way in which it was effected. Some victory's aren't worth having.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Aren't they already being punished enough by having to live a life in poverty? While pile on more?
    Most of them have never even SEEN poverty.

    See links: Poverty Distortions In America | CalWatchDog

    Wealth and Poverty: What Is Poverty? — Infoplease.com

    The Great

    Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox - By Ken McIntyre - The Corner - National Review Online
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Then it isnt about discouraging free loading as you claimed. Besides, the people who are going to be hit with the tax are the ones who dont buy health insurance. Many of those are "already being punished enough by having to live a life in poverty? While pile on more?"
    No... Nobody in poverty can't get health insurance anymore. That's the whole freaking point of this thing. To get those folks insurance.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I pay CASH and get all the care that I need, I pay my bills, I buy and take my medications and get HUGE cash discounts for doing so. The clinic that I use never even has to send me a bill, as I refuse to leave until I pay for that visit. They LIKE me there, and would help me in any way should I ask for it. They have even had me admitted to the hospital for surgery ($5,800) and I paid CASH for that as well (but it took 2.5 years). Paying cash is not impossible.
    What you're missing is that by doing that you are imposing risk on the rest of us. If you get hit by a bus tomorrow, you're going to get admitted to an ER, it is going to cost $200k to fix you back up, and we'll have to foot most of that bill.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I do not WANT gov't help, if I really needed it, then my family, friends and neighbors would try to raise it, as we all did for another neighbor whose entire house was recently destroyed by a lighting strike fire. People CAN DO much more than most think, if they are simply willing to TRY and help each other when in need, what goes around, comes around.

    I am old and have been in many motorcycle accidents that have taken their toll, over the years, via multiple broken bones, plates, screws, bone grafts and some messed up soft tissue (discs and nerves) and some circulation problems, but can still work, so I do, hopefully until at least age 62 to get SS help, that I will have worked 45 years for.
    This distinction where you think there is something morally wrong about accepting help with your medical expenses prior to turning 62, but that it is ok after 62 is a bit odd... But, whatever, hey, I respect that you want to be independent like that. It's even admirable in a way. But it doesn't align with the modern reality. The reality today is that by trying to be independent you are imposing your risks on the rest of us. And, besides, just because you want to turn down help doesn't mean that most people do. We have to design policies around everybody. We can't always accommodate the individual quirks of each person's preferences.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  9. #809
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Most of them have never even SEEN poverty.
    Have you never spent time with somebody who was living on public assistance alone? I have. It's brutal. Often times their houses are not closed off to the elements because they can't afford to fix holes in the roof and whatnot. Often times they have discarded objects as furniture like milk crates for chairs and a board on a couple of cinder blocks for a table. Why anybody would want to hurt people in that situation even more is beyond me.

    Our economic system has built right into it the reality that some people are going to lose out. They aren't going to be smart enough, or lucky enough or who knows what, and they're going to be poor. That's by design. How much extra **** do we need to pile on to them on top of the poverty? What is the point of doing that? Just malice?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    $5,800 is a drop in the bucket compared to what you'll owe if you need a major medical procedure.



    Even the cost of replacing a house isn't as much as the cost of many medical procedures.
    Living on about $900/month does not allow me to pay insurance, so I do what I can to avoid needing medical care, when my number is up, then that is it for me. If I had major assets to protect or others depending on my income then insurance would be a wise expense, I had it earlier in life through my job(s), as things are, it is not practical to try to live on less than $300/month rent, sharing an old 2BR singlewide mobile home is good enough for me. If Obama thinks I need to pay a fine for that "crime", then so be it. I hope this stupid PPACA law is gone by 2014, if not, I may just "retire" (at least from IRS view).
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-01-12 at 10:17 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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