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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I take it your company was not in the agriculture, defense, pharmaceutical, energy, telecom or financial industries. Were you working for a designer label?
    I was at a software company. But most of the regulations for those other industries don't kick in for small companies anyways. For example, energy company regulations will usually say that they apply to companies making more than X megawatts of energy or with more than Y employees or revenues or whatever.

    But, those industries you list aren't just random. Those are all industries that have the potential to impose particularly enormous negative externalities on the general public. So it makes sense that they would be more heavily regulated, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Ok, I am with you. The commerce clause has not played a fundamental role in drug criminalization, but it is not a minor role either, at least in the case of marijuana. Otherwise, I could grow for personal consumption. See Gonzales v. Raich.
    If you're in a state that decriminalized it, yes, that is true.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I disagree that that is what the Tea Party wants. They want a controlled budget and fiscal responsibility. Given all the money the fed gives to various industries, they would be happy to review the incestuous relationship between government and corporations.
    All the hysterical blathering about how everything is "socialism" seems to have slipped your mind somehow... That's like their main thing! Opposing government intervention with the corporations. Look at how they flipped the eff out when the federal government prohibited companies from selling outdated lightbulbs for christ's sake. The tea party is fundamentally about two things- even lower taxes than we have now and de-regulation.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It doesn't matter. Virtually all of them are driven by the same tribal mentality that drives their fierce opposition to the Affordable Care Act, despite the fact that there was almost no opposition (let alone outrage) to these kind of ideas among conservatives prior to 2009.
    Dems shoved it down the throats of the GOP , Tea Party included. It was more about the way they went about it, not listening to any input from the GOP, than it was about the specific ideas. The result is a ****ing mess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Health care would most certainly not be common ground. In fact it's possibly the single most intractable issue between them.
    How do you know? Have you asked them? Floating the idea of eliminating Obamacare with Medicare for all as a single payer, private service plan may give some pause to consider.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    You defeat your own argument, but that is OK since is was false to begin with. By your own admission here, concessions were made to wavering and cowardly DEMOCRATS, not republicans. How many votes did Pelosi need to pass Obamacare through the House? How many democrat members did she have at the time? She needed to appease wavering democrats, not woo mean republicans as you first contended. This was a democrat bill that was signed into law by democrats. If it was wildly popular you would be trumpeting the fact that republicans played no role rather than thanking them for forcing democrats to make needed concessions. The fact is, the law is unpopular. Obama never mentions it, democrats never mention it. And you are trying to put the blame for its deficiencies upon republicans--who had no role in the process. That is just partisan revisionism on your part. Play it straight and your position would have more credibility.
    When either side launches a big campaign on any issue it affects politicians in both parties. You understand that, right? That isn't news to you. So what gives? Honestly it kind of seems like you're intentionally trying not to understand.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    that has nothing to do with having a penalty tax for not buying health insurance.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

    My friends on the left, America is gravely weakened by internal division isn't it? Internal division weakens the country in the face of peer powers who have social cohesion doesn't it?

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Dems shoved it down the throats of the GOP , Tea Party included. It was more about the way they went about it, not listening to any input from the GOP, than it was about the specific ideas. The result is a ****ing mess.
    I would be sympathetic to that argument except it was crystal clear that Republicans only interest was in seeing that nothing got passed.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    When either side launches a big campaign on any issue it affects politicians in both parties. You understand that, right? That isn't news to you. So what gives? Honestly it kind of seems like you're intentionally trying not to understand.
    But you are changing your argument. YOur first claim, the one I have been addressing, is the false claim that democrats made concessions to republicans that weakened the bill. That is false. That republicans and the general public had serious opposition to what the democrats were doing is true, but irrelevant. The bill was crafted not to appease angry, mean republicans, but to bring in 218 nervous democrats. This is a democrat bill. Own it. You certainly would if it were popular.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I would be sympathetic to that argument except it was crystal clear that Republicans only interest was in seeing that nothing got passed.
    Assume for the sake of argument that you are correct. Do you think Republicans will now cooperate with your side? Probably not. Do you think that division will weaken America?

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Dems shoved it down the throats of the GOP , Tea Party included. It was more about the way they went about it, not listening to any input from the GOP, than it was about the specific ideas. The result is a ****ing mess.
    Oh bull****. The Affordable Care Act is almost identical to Mitt Romney's health care reform law in Massachusetts, and virtually every single provision in the ACA had been endorsed by prominent conservatives, including Newt Gingrich, Bob Dole, Chuck Grassley, Orrin Hatch, Robert Bennett, and the Heritage Foundation. And take a look at some of John McCain's health care ideas from the 2008 campaign. Does any of that look familiar?

    The Democrats did listen to input from the GOP. They spent the entire summer (and into the fall) of 2009 asking for their input and trying to reach a compromise for a bipartisan agreement. Instead the Republicans gave them the finger, burned down the groundwork for their own ideas, pissed on the ashes, and salted the earth.

    How do you know? Have you asked them? Floating the idea of eliminating Obamacare with Medicare for all as a single payer, private service plan may give some pause to consider.
    Even if it did (highly unlikely), all it takes is for Rush Limbaugh and FOX News to start calling it socialist. Then these same people will immediately abandon the idea and swear up and down that they've always hated such a tyrannical idea (and probably actually believe that they always have). The Tea Party is not some budding new movement of independents who happen to be conservatives fed up with the size of government; they're just a bunch of pissed off Republicans who like to dress up like Uncle Sam.
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