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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

  1. #621
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Why deal at all with deductables, co-insurance and all of that crap? Just eliminate health insurance and pay straight up tax for free medical care, at the state level.
    Insurance is GOOD for the rare, the unexpected and the expensive. While we may win the medical care cost bet THIS year, that does not mean that we will also NEXT year. As many, myself included, can attest, their are BAD years, and a need for SOME good insurance. Would you drop auto or homeowners insurance as well? I doubt it. The ONLY reason for the super costs of current medical care insurance is the KIND of coverage, thus the frequency of its use. You don't claim tune-ups, oil changes or flat tires on your auto policy, only MAJOR collisions and liability. You don't claim a worn out clothes dryer, repainting the living room or lawn maintanence on your homeowners policy, only strom damage, fire damage or an accidental injury on your property.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-01-12 at 03:34 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #622
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    LOL if it came out of everyone's pocket, you can bet they would suddenly become more interested. People are NOT interested because they have so little control over it. If they were allowed to shop around for rates, they might care about costs a lot more.
    Right, people aren't interested because the insurance company pays the bills and very often the insured doesn't even see the bill. Our system doesn't work on free market principles.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Insurance is GOOD for the rare, the unexpected and the expensive. While we may win the medical acre cost bet THIS year, that does not mean that we will NEXT year. As many, myself included, can attest, their are BAD years, and a need for SOME insurance. Would you drop auto or homeowners insurance as well? The ONLY reasonfor the super costs of currenr medical care insurance is the KIND of coverage. You don't claim tune-ups, oil changes or flat tires on your auto policy, only MAJOR collisions and liability. You don't claim a worn out clothes dryer, repainting the living room or lawn maintanenece on your homeowners policy, only strom damage, fire damage or an accidental injury on your property.
    Replacing private medical insurance with publicly funded care does not mean you don't get care when you need it. There is no need for insurance with public funding.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Or...
    You could just convince the voters of your views and win an election.
    The forces of the established order are too powerful to be overcome using the existing political system.

    What does one do under those circumstances? One changes the rules of the game or one adopts Han Chinese tactics.

    When one no longer believes in the legitimacy of the established order one is at liberty to undermine the entire order. Look at the way the Second Iraq War was undermined by people who didn't believe in the order.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Another giant leap backwards.

  6. #626
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Any large piece of legislation will have unintended consequences. Most smaller pieces of legislation will even.
    Even the longest journey starts with a single step. There is NO need to jump in the pond over your head just to see if the water is cold or not. Allowing medical insurance to be sold accross state lines would be STEP ONE. Lifting bans, instead of ADDING BANS on "catstrophic" medical care insurance would be STEP TWO. Expanding medicaid, with reasonable, income based fees would be STEP THEEE (the public option). Restrictions on (NOT BANS) rescission and pre-existing condition practices should be addressed as STEP FOUR. Tort reform restrictions should be STEP FIVE. Easily determined cost of care for a variety of conditions, advertised freely, would be STEP SIX.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    When one no longer believes in the legitimacy of the established order one is at liberty to undermine the entire order.
    The established order is in bed with corporate interests, and gives it to us, the citizens, as a result.

    The Declaration of Independence lays out the principled case for overthrowing the established order:
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

  8. #628
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Even the longest journey starts with a single step. There is NO need to jump in the pond over your head just to see if the water is cold or not. Allowing medical insurance to be sold accross state lines would be STEP ONE. Lifting bans, instead of ADDING BANS on "catstrophic" medical care insurance would be STEP TWO. Expanding medicaid, with reasonable, income based fees would be STEP THEEE (the public option). Restrictions on (NOT BANS) rescission and pre-existing condition practices should be addressed as STEP FOUR. Tort reform restrictions should be STEP FIVE. Easily determined cost of care for a variety of conditions, advertised freely, would be STEP SIX.
    I have asked this before and not gotten an answer. Maybe you know. Why is it that insurance cannot be sold across state lines? In theory it sounds like a no brainer, it should be perfectly legal. However, I am assuming hte law did not come about by accident, so does any one know the justification for that ban?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  9. #629
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Replacing private medical insurance with publicly funded care does not mean you don't get care when you need it. There is no need for insurance with public funding.
    BAD idea, charity care should be a private matter, we already have medicaid/medcaid for that, BTW. The LAST thing I want to see is a hospital/clinic run like the post office or motor vehicle department.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  10. #630
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    The forces of the established order are too powerful to be overcome using the existing political system.

    What does one do under those circumstances? One changes the rules of the game or one adopts Han Chinese tactics.

    When one no longer believes in the legitimacy of the established order one is at liberty to undermine the entire order. Look at the way the Second Iraq War was undermined by people who didn't believe in the order.
    Cool. Then you can secede from the country, and take everyone with you who is committed to preserving an inefficient health care system. I'm not going to stop you. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
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