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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No. That just is not a correct understanding of the decision. You've got the big picture, but you're misunderstanding the details. I'm telling you, 100% for a fact, the decision deals with the individual mandate, not the employer mandate.

    The majority said that the commerce clause does not allow Congress to force somebody who isn't engaging in commerce to engage in commerce. But an employer already is engaging in commerce. They are paying employees. That is commerce. The Congress wouldn't be forcing them to move from the not-engaging-in-commerce column to the is-engaging-in-commerce column. They were engaged in commerce all along, by definition. An employer is one who employs somebody. Employing somebody is commerce.

    We regulate employment conditions and compensation all the time under the commerce clause. Bans on child labor, minimum wage, rules protecting collective bargaining, OSHA, requirements, etc.



    That doesn't make sense lol. So they offered it when there was no fine. Now there is a fine. So they would drop coverage now? That's ridiculous. Think it over before you respond...
    Its cost. Health care costs are going to skyrocket. Paying the fines allows you to opt out of the uncertainty of insurance coverage on employees and pay a set fine per employee, its a hell of a lot better indicator than what insurance companies want your insurance premiums to be for the quarter.

    If youre paying say 2k a year and the fine is only 1k....do the math.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Obamacare will be like all other social welfare spending. Costs will explode. This will harm the economy. A legislative fix won't be possible.

    Your side won't hold sixty seats in the Senate again during our lifetimes.
    I doubt that the filibuster will be around (at least in its current form) for much longer anyway, so 60 seats probably will not be necessary.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There is not going to be conservative acquiescence on this any time in the near future.

    The inevitable problems is why I favored a more gradual, step by step approach to improving health care. That is, make a few smaller changes, see what happens, then look at making more changes, see what happens, make more changes, until we get to where we have a sustainable, accessible, working health care system.
    I agree. That would have been the better approach. Now the glitches and problems that will inevitably develop will have the effect of harming the economy on a major scale. It makes sense for employers without extremely high skilled workers to simply eliminate existing coverage and to throw them into exchanges. Subsidies to exchanges will raise the deficit.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    That is demonstrably not the case. Most people who have insurance don't even know what theyre being billed, or for that matter, what their insurance costs. If someone's insurance covers an MRI, there is no incentive to shop around for the best deal on an MRI. And doctors are the same way. Mary probably doesn't need an MRI -- it's probably a waste of money -- but she's got insurance so hey, why not just where a belt and suspenders? It's just the insurance company, right?
    WOW. This may be the first time I have EVER agreed with you. As long as a third party, whether the insurance company or the gov't sets the price, then the consumer has NO SAY at all.
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    LOL. Did Nancy Pelosi tell you to say that? We just have to wait YEARS and then see what this massive 3,000+ pages of legal garbage really means.
    Any large piece of legislation will have unintended consequences. Most smaller pieces of legislation will even.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I doubt that the filibuster will be around (at least in its current form) for much longer anyway, so 60 seats probably will not be necessary.
    So what you intend to achieve is permanent power. I understand the temptation. The problem is that those folks who no longer have a stake in the success of the established order will become internal enemies.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    That is demonstrably not the case. Most people who have insurance don't even know what theyre being billed, or for that matter, what their insurance costs. If someone's insurance covers an MRI, there is no incentive to shop around for the best deal on an MRI. And doctors are the same way. Mary probably doesn't need an MRI -- it's probably a waste of money -- but she's got insurance so hey, why not just where a belt and suspenders? It's just the insurance company, right?
    LOL if it came out of everyone's pocket, you can bet they would suddenly become more interested. People are NOT interested because they have so little control over it. If they were allowed to shop around for rates, they might care about costs a lot more.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Its cost. Health care costs are going to skyrocket. Paying the fines allows you to opt out of the uncertainty of insurance coverage on employees and pay a set fine per employee, its a hell of a lot better indicator than what insurance companies want your insurance premiums to be for the quarter.

    If youre paying say 2k a year and the fine is only 1k....do the math.
    So think this through. Say you pay $2k/year for insurance. Before the fine, if you stopped offering insurance, you would save $2k/year. Now, with the fine, you would save only $1k per year. So the fine makes you LESS likely to stop offering insurance. You follow?

    As for health care costs skyrocketting, I do agree that costs will continue to go up until we get at least a public option. The pressure from the right forced the left to abandon almost every measure that was designed to prevent the costs from going up. But that's nothing new. Health care costs have doubled every 7 years or so for almost 3 decades straight now. That will likely continue until we do something to change it.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    So what you intend to achieve is permanent power. I understand the temptation. The problem is that those folks who no longer have a stake in the success of the established order will become internal enemies.
    Or...
    You could just convince the voters of your views and win an election.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    LOL if it came out of everyone's pocket, you can bet they would suddenly become more interested. People are NOT interested because they have so little control over it. If they were allowed to shop around for rates, they might care about costs a lot more.
    Isn't that the point of the Health Insurance Exchanges?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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