Page 59 of 122 FirstFirst ... 949575859606169109 ... LastLast
Results 581 to 590 of 1220

Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

  1. #581
    Sage
    OpportunityCost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,724

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You can certainly mandate things under the commerce clause... No idea where you got the idea that you couldn't. The inaction argument- that perhaps there is some super secret unwritten limit on the commerce clause that it can't regulate inaction- doesn't apply in the context of an employer because they are acting- they are employing people. That is commerce. When you engage in commerce, there is no question that your behavior can be regulated.
    Dead wrong. You cannot regulate what insurance someone MUST provide. You are not able to mandate they must provide it. Unless you call it a tax. It is NOT commerce clause that was what the ruling was about. Go back and read it. They limited the commerce clause providing limitations on it specifically that you cannot justify forcing commerce that doesnt already exist but you can tax to force that behavior.

  2. #582
    Sage
    OpportunityCost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,724

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Yeah. The blue dogs were the first to crack under the teabagging.
    Done deal, I get to call dem moves ****bagging now, as they are a **** bag party, are you a ****bagger?

    Grow up, its the tea party you inflammatory partisan disinformation specialist.

  3. #583
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:31 PM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,291
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Moderator's Warning:
    SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]Thjreads merged, please keep discussions on health care ruling in this thread.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  4. #584
    Sage

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    8,351

    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Au contraire. The government has mandated me to buy a house in the same way that it's mandating insurance. If I don't have a mortgage then I'm being penalized through the tax code insofar as I would be paying more than people who do have a mortgage. Thus, according to your logic, the mortgage interest I'm paying is a tax.
    Au contraire. I own a home and have no mortgage. What tax am I paying?

  5. #585
    Sage

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    8,351

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Done deal, I get to call dem moves ****bagging now, as they are a **** bag party, are you a ****bagger?

    Grow up, its the tea party you inflammatory partisan disinformation specialist.
    If he only teabagged once is he considered a teabagger?

  6. #586
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Dead wrong. You cannot regulate what insurance someone MUST provide. You are not able to mandate they must provide it. Unless you call it a tax. It is NOT commerce clause that was what the ruling was about. Go back and read it. They limited the commerce clause providing limitations on it specifically that you cannot justify forcing commerce that doesnt already exist but you can tax to force that behavior.
    No, the ruling was about the INDIVIDUAL mandate, not the fines for employers. You're mixed up. I don't even think the employer mandate was challenged. It is obviously constitutional. Those are parties engaging in interstate commerce. The compensation of the employees is commerce, so of course Congress can regulate it. And of course, it does all the time.

    The argument that 5 of the justices bought is that there is an unwritten limit on the commerce clause that it can't force individuals who are not engaging in commerce to engage in it. That is incorrect of course. The constitution doesn't contain any such limit. But, regardless, it has nothing to do with the employer mandate.

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Done deal, I get to call dem moves ****bagging now, as they are a **** bag party, are you a ****bagger?

    Grow up, its the tea party you inflammatory partisan disinformation specialist.
    Oh waaa. We should all feel really sorry for a group of people that organized for the purpose of preventing poor people from getting health care.... Suuuure... No, I don't think so. Teabaggers are viscious, cruel, ignorant, immoral people. They absolutely deserve zero respect.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  7. #587
    Sage
    OpportunityCost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,724

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No, the ruling was about the INDIVIDUAL mandate, not the fines for employers. You're mixed up. I don't even think the employer mandate was challenged. It is obviously constitutional. Those are parties engaging in interstate commerce. The compensation of the employees is commerce, so of course Congress can regulate it. And of course, it does all the time.

    The argument that 5 of the justices bought is that there is an unwritten limit on the commerce clause that it can't force individuals who are not engaging in commerce to engage in it. That is incorrect of course. The constitution doesn't contain any such limit. But, regardless, it has nothing to do with the employer mandate.



    Oh waaa. We should all feel really sorry for a group of people that organized for the purpose of preventing poor people from getting health care.... Suuuure... No, I don't think so. Teabaggers are viscious, cruel, ignorant, immoral people. They absolutely deserve zero respect.
    Health care as compensation is unregulated. ITS OPTIONAL. Mandating it is not allowable through commerce, its allowable through taxing powers. Its at the heart of the decision, to force providing insurance or commerce where before it was not. Commerce clause was pinned back by the decision to say that forcing commerce where it does not exist is not allowed, but you can force that through a tax and it must be described as such.

    For bolded: neither do you deserve respect nor should you misrepresent the formation of the Tea Party, it formed during the stimulus and TARP and the bailouts, not the health care act. Again disinformation.

  8. #588
    Sage
    mike2810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    arizona
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    15,008

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    it is amazing the US has lasted this long. How did we make it without health care for all? Not saying ACA is bad law. I'm saying ACA does raise some questions regarding implemenation, costs, and role of govt. Guess if someone doesn't agree they must be ignorant, immoral and deserve no respect. (and I am not a teabagger). People have a right to their views.

  9. #589
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,565

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You can certainly mandate things under the commerce clause... No idea where you got the idea that you couldn't. The inaction argument- that perhaps there is some super secret unwritten limit on the commerce clause that it can't regulate inaction- doesn't apply in the context of an employer because they are acting- they are employing people. That is commerce. When you engage in commerce, there is no question that your behavior can be regulated.
    An employer, that now pays $4K per employee in medical care insurance benefits (plus handles all the insurance paperwork) and has 100 employees now spends $400K in "overhead"; in return that money is not taxed as income, saving that employer say 25% or $100K in income taxes. If that employer drops that medical care insurance benefit, pays the PPACA tax of $140K, then they can give pay raises of $240K (or an average of $2,400 per employee) and break about even (but have no insurance paperwork to mess with). Is this what "we the people" really want? The OBVIOUS advantage, to the employer, is that medical care insurance costs (rising at 9%/year) no longer have to be factored into the price of their goods and services.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-01-12 at 02:56 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  10. #590
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:31 PM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,291
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Moderator's Warning:
    SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]A few people are very close to the point of being removed from this thread. Either tone it way down or be removed.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •