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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

  1. #571
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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Seems it is a TAX to keep deadbeats from not buying insurance. Why is that so bad? We pay for their FREE medical care anyway so let them be forced to buy insurance.

    Most of us have insurance already so this doesn't affect us. So why all the emotion?

    I'm not at all sure how many different taxes there are in the good old USA but I'll betcha there are thousands of them.

    Now Congress can tax us? Like this is something new?

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Au contraire. The government has mandated me to buy a house in the same way that it's mandating insurance. If I don't have a mortgage then I'm being penalized through the tax code insofar as I would be paying more than people who do have a mortgage. Thus, according to your logic, the mortgage interest I'm paying is a tax.
    what a crock. Move the goalpost to all the tax code. So lets change the tax code so everyone, including the poor, pay taxes at the same rate.

    Not my logic, it was the SC. Sorry bud, but its a tax according the the SC.

  3. #573
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Actually it does. And as proof of this, I submit the example of every other developed country in the world, which has universal health care and a fraction of the costs.



    Sigh. I've already debunked this silly point in this thread. And I don't feel like responding to it, or even digging through posts to find my previous response.
    Then PROPOSE and pass a UHC law, not a bunch of smoke and mirrors mandates that pretend to get us "closer" to it. The simple FACT is that the 85% that now have private medical care insurance (90% of those as an employer provided benefit) would NEVER vote for gov't provided UHC. Anyone that looks at the REAL costs and believes that adding 45 million to the "insured" rolls (at 20% added overhead) will make costs go down is simply sipping WAY to much Koolaid.

    Link: Health care in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #574
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Then PROPOSE and pass a UHC law, not a bunch of smoke and mirrors mandates that pretend to get us "closer" to it. The simple FACT is that the 85% that now have private medical care insurance (90% of those as an employer provided benefit) would NEVER vote for gov't provided UHC. Anyone that looks at the REAL costs and believes that adding 45 million to the "insured" rolls (at 20% added overhead) will make costs go down is simply sipping WAY to much Koolaid.

    Link: Health care in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    We did. The GOP forced us to compromise away many of the key provisions.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  5. #575
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Then do that directly with taxation and make it REAL, don't play clever accounting games and then PRETEND that the PPACA is "fair". Medical care costs NOW amount about 1/6 of our economy yet NOBODY is talking about an 18% medical care tax, all of the numbers used are 2% to 9% range which is not even close to the REAL cost. The AVERAGE annual cost PER PERSON for U.S. medical care is over $7,000 yet is NEVER discussed, do the simple math of 45 million multiplied by $7K and see what PPACA is likely to REALLY cost.

    Link: Health care in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Actually I *did* discuss costs. I pointed out many of the cost-control provisions within PPACA. You even criticized the IPAB, because you don't want any cost-effectiveness measures put in place...showing that you are part of the very problem you supposedly care so much about. And I also cited the evidence that shows other developed nations cover everyone and get better or equal quality, for far less costs. You conveniently brushed this point aside, because you don't ACTUALLY want to discuss costs. You might not like what the evidence shows.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No, that is clearly under the commerce clause, not a tax. We already have tons of requirements about benefits packages and whatnot. Nothing new there. This whole silly hypothetical issue about inaction doesn't apply there, since employers are doing something- employing people.
    This post is a great big pile of disinformation.
    Employers are being told they must provide insurance care per the act or be fined. That is not the commerce clause talking, it is the mandate----which the SCOTUS would only allow to be constitutional under the power to tax. So yes, it is the tax and the commerce clause absolutely does not control.

    You are either trolling, ignorant of the ruling or so partisan that you dont care your posts are wrong.

  7. #577
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Then PROPOSE and pass a UHC law,
    I'd definitely be in favor of that. Unfortunately there is not a congressional majority for it.

    Anyone that looks at the REAL costs and believes that adding 45 million to the "insured" rolls (at 20% added overhead) will make costs go down is simply sipping WAY to much Koolaid.
    Let's be clear about something. Our economy ALREADY incurs the cost of uninsured people...we just pay for it in the least efficient way possible. There is an economic cost associated with workplace absenteeism, shorter lives, increased risk-aversion, waiting until medical issues become emergencies, etc.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    We did. The GOP forced us to compromise away many of the key provisions.
    Teamo engaging in more disinformation. The blue dog democrats had more to do with the compromises and key changes than the GOP did. The blue dogs wanted political cover for this---Stupak, Nelson, McCaskill, etc.

    Snowe, Collins and Specter had very little to do with changes to the law.

  9. #579
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    This post is a great big pile of disinformation.
    Employers are being told they must provide insurance care per the act or be fined. That is not the commerce clause talking, it is the mandate----which the SCOTUS would only allow to be constitutional under the power to tax. So yes, it is the tax and the commerce clause absolutely does not control.

    You are either trolling, ignorant of the ruling or so partisan that you dont care your posts are wrong.
    You can certainly mandate things under the commerce clause... No idea where you got the idea that you couldn't. The inaction argument- that perhaps there is some super secret unwritten limit on the commerce clause that it can't regulate inaction- doesn't apply in the context of an employer because they are acting- they are employing people. That is commerce. When you engage in commerce, there is no question that your behavior can be regulated.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  10. #580
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Teamo engaging in more disinformation. The blue dog democrats had more to do with the compromises and key changes than the GOP did. The blue dogs wanted political cover for this---Stupak, Nelson, McCaskill, etc.
    Yeah. The blue dogs were the first to crack under the teabagging.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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