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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

  1. #491
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That is INSANE. Our constitution lists (enumerates) specific federal powers, NOWHERE does it say unless they become popular/unpopular. The constitution has been amended numerous times regrding voting "rights". Simply because something is popular does NOT make it constituional, as I have said there are many "nice" things that a gov't MAY do, but ours is supposed to be limitted by our constitution, then entire reason for even having a SCOTUS. If they now simply say that if congress passes it then it is OK, then save some money and dissovle the SCOTUS. Penalties for BREAKING laws are supposed to require a trial, not a simple presumtion of guilt and passing a sentence; this is EXACTLY what the insurance mandate does. The PPACA law requires us to do something new, using our own money no less. Under MY fifth amendment right, against self incrimination, I will NOT file a federal tax return, so as to avoid the PPACA "conviction" and fine.
    Good luck with that. I guess I can do this when I don't agree with a war or any other taxes/fees levied against me as well?
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    That's obviously incorrect.
    You obviously have nothing to refute it other than denial...
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The thread isn't about cars, trucks and dealers. Again, analogies not necessary. Address the topic itself. It's not all that complex. I showed where the Obama admin argued it was a tax in court (posted the transcript). It's also been shown where, at the same time, the POTUS was telling the public it wasn't a tax.

    You - all you have is a weak analogy to prop up your partisan argument.
    About 1% are paying that "tax" in Mass. so if you want to say we are raisng taxes on 1% of Americans go for it.

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    Yes, it's a tax that comes with Death Panels.
    Well the insurance company Death Panel employees are gonna be out of work with the new law, so...
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Oh but we do have the right and it our obligation to make sure you do. Just because you want to leave accident victims to die by the side of the road does not mean it is right. Can you imagine if we just let people make all societies decsions on their own?
    No, you have the power, not the 'right.' There is a big difference. And why is everything about dying on the side of the road with you guys? That is such a dumb argument and a straw man since no one is saying anything of the kind. Try to deal with what I write and not want you wish I had written and we might actually get somewhere.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    I see. So because people wont pick up some greasy drifter hitch hiking along the road, all of America is selfish and rotten. Dude, sane people dont pick up hitch hikers. Buy a car and stop free-loading and looking for a free ride. Time to grow up.
    Wow, talk about irony!!

    If a penalty is imposed to prevent people from free riding on the health care system it's cause for revolution -- not encouraging personal responsibility, as Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich argued. But if if someone asks someone for a ride that's freeloading!
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Yeah, and what makes him a liar, instead of just wrong is that he keeps repeating it's not a tax, even after the decision.
    And the name it is called is important because?

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That is INSANE. Our constitution lists (enumerates) specific federal powers
    Right. The power to tax is an enumerated power. As is the power to regulate interstate commerce.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    NOWHERE does it say unless they become popular/unpopular. The constitution has been amended numerous times regrding voting "rights". Simply because something is popular does NOT make it constituional, as I have said many times, there are many "nice" things that a gov't MAY do, but ours is supposed to be limitted by our constitution, the entire reason for even having a SCOTUS. If the SCOTUS now simply says that if congress passes it then it is OK, then save some money and dissovle the SCOTUS.

    Penalties for BREAKING laws are supposed to require a trial, not a simple presumtion of guilt and passing a sentence; this is EXACTLY what the insurance mandate does. The PPACA law requires us to do something new, using our own money no less. What CRIME have I comitted, by simply paying cash for my own medical care, that I should be fined for? Under MY fifth amendment right, against self incrimination, I will NOT file a federal tax return, so as to avoid the PPACA "conviction" and fine.
    Again, there are some areas where we can write down a clear cut rule saying A is acceptable, but B is not, and that will stand the test of time and we don't even need to vote on it. For example, we know that government should not deny the vote to black people or prevent people from speaking freely or whatever. But most areas there is no clear cut simple rule that we can impose to separate good policy from bad policy. We can't say what wars ought to be fought and what ones ought not be fought in a simple phrase. We can't make a simple rule that will tell us when we should invest in scientific research and when we should not. For those kinds of things, we need to use democracy. Taxation and the regulation of corporations and whatnot are in that bucket.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Wow, talk about irony!!

    If a penalty is imposed to prevent people from free riding on the health care system it's cause for revolution -- not encouraging personal responsibility — as Mitt Romney argued). But if if someone asks someone for a ride that's freeloading!
    You have a strange understanding of personal responsibility. If that is what you truly advocate, then responsibility for your health lies with you. If you cant afford it, you dont get it. But you dont really believe in personal responsibility at all, do you.

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You obviously have nothing to refute it other than denial...
    Your statement was simply incorrect. Not all tax hikes on certain individuals, businesses, or transactions would result in a higher tax burden for every American. Not much discussion required to refute that claim.

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