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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    this isn't a tax-increase on the Middle-class.

    I am lower Middle-class, and my taxes aren't going up in 2014.

    therefore, I am not facing a tax-increase.

    only in a backwards convoluted way, could someone see this as a tax hike on the middle-class.
    When taxes are raised on anyone or any entity in this country, they are raised on each and every one of us...unless you're on the public dole, of course.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I think the analogy would be easier for you to get your head around because it's every day experience. Why would you not consider the dealer that told you it was a car, not a truck, a liar?
    The thread isn't about cars, trucks and dealers. Again, analogies not necessary. Address the topic itself. It's not all that complex. I showed where the Obama admin argued it was a tax in court (posted the transcript). It's also been shown where, at the same time, the POTUS was telling the public it wasn't a tax.

    You - all you have is a weak analogy to prop up your partisan argument.

  3. #483
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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    If you don't obey the law you could pay a penalty. That's not a tax, even if the authority to levy the penalty arises out of the taxing power. This Republican talking point has already outlived its shelf life.
    It could be considered either a tax or perhaps a fine. Either way it's most certainly not a fee, as that implies the individual paying said amount receives an immediate service in return. I'm afraid that talking point has already been debunked thoroughly.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Thats not accurate. It is not a matter of wanting or not wanting to take care of the sick, but whether or not it is the role of the federal government to mandate that care be given and who is to pay for it. No one is stopping you, for example, from paying your neighbors medical bills if they bother you so much. The objection is that you have no right to compel me to pay them.
    Oh but we do have the right and it our obligation to make sure you do. Just because you want to leave accident victims to die by the side of the road does not mean it is right. Can you imagine if we just let people make all societies decsions on their own?

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The thread isn't about cars, trucks and dealers. Again, analogies not necessary. Address the topic itself. It's not all that complex. I showed where the Obama admin argued it was a tax in court (posted the transcript). It's also been shown where, at the same time, the POTUS was telling the public it wasn't a tax.

    You - all you have is a weak analogy to prop up your partisan argument.
    Apparently, he was wrong.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    When taxes are raised on anyone or any entity in this country, they are raised on each and every one of us...unless you're on the public dole, of course.
    That's obviously incorrect.

  7. #487
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Without limits? We live in a democracy. The power of the government is limited by elections. There are some areas where we can write down a clear cut rule saying A is acceptable, but B is not, and that will stand the test of time and we don't even need to vote on it. For example, we know that government should not deny the vote to black people or prevent people from speaking freely or whatever. But most areas there is no clear cut simple rule that we can impose to separate good policy from bad policy. We can't say what wars ought to be fought and what ones ought not be fought in a simple phrase. We can't make a simple rule that will tell us when we should invest in scientific research and when we should not. For those kinds of things, we need to use democracy. Taxation and the regulation of corporations and whatnot are in that bucket.
    That is INSANE. Our constitution lists (enumerates) specific federal powers, NOWHERE does it say unless they become popular/unpopular. The constitution has been amended numerous times regarding voting "rights". Simply because something is popular does NOT make it constituional, as I have said many times, there are many "nice" things that a gov't MAY do, but ours is supposed to be limitted by our constitution, the entire reason for even having a SCOTUS. If the SCOTUS now simply says that if congress passes it then it is OK, then save some money and dissovle the SCOTUS.

    Penalties for BREAKING laws are supposed to require a trial, not a simple presumtion of guilt and passing a sentence; this is EXACTLY what the insurance mandate does. The PPACA law requires us to do something new, using our own money no less. What CRIME have I comitted, by simply paying cash for my own medical care, that I should be fined for? Under MY fifth amendment right, against self incrimination, I will NOT file a federal tax return, so as to avoid the PPACA "conviction" and fine.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-01-12 at 12:59 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    It's a new tax that can be potentially levied on members of any class.


    Yes, it's a tax that comes with Death Panels.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Apparently, he was wrong.
    Yeah, and what makes him a liar, instead of just wrong is that he keeps repeating it's not a tax, even after the decision.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    This opinion I totally agree with. "Christian" Americans seem so selfish and unconcerned about the well-being of their community. All they want is to live in the big mansion and attend their privileged church on Sundays. What about the broader CHURCH of Christ? Including the disbelievers.

    I have spent the past 4 days trying to hitchhike up the road to stores. I have gotten 3 rides out of 10+ trips, one of which I asked for before sticking my thumb out. Another guy who helped is from Peru. Only one Caucasian American helped me out. That is a hit rate of 1 in 200+. Most people drive by are absorbed in their own world and unwilling to help another poor soul out. So much for the heart of America...it will bleed in the future.
    I see. So because people wont pick up some greasy drifter hitch hiking along the road, all of America is selfish and rotten. Dude, sane people dont pick up hitch hikers. Buy a car and stop free-loading and looking for a free ride. Time to grow up.

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