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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Do you have some evidence that Moroccan health care is "on par" with the quality level of Us health care?
    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Morroco is "on par" with the U.S. for medical care "quality"? Link please...
    The World Health Organization ranks Morocco 29th and us 37th for quality of care.

    World Health Organization ranking of health systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You don't understand; it's not that we CAN'T take care of our sick. It's that, "Christian nation" that we are, we don't WANT to take care of our sick. Or at least so says that segment of our population that's so vocal about its Christian values.
    Thats not accurate. It is not a matter of wanting or not wanting to take care of the sick, but whether or not it is the role of the federal government to mandate that care be given and who is to pay for it. No one is stopping you, for example, from paying your neighbors medical bills if they bother you so much. The objection is that you have no right to compel me to pay them.

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    If you don't obey the law you could pay a penalty. That's not a tax, even if the authority to levy the penalty arises out of the taxing power. This Republican talking point has already outlived its shelf life.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    You missed my point entirely. Taxing what IS done is FAR different than taxing what was NOT done. This is the CLEAR difference of this PPACA law, whether applied to either commerce or taxation. If the federal gov't can now mandate what you SPEND your money on, then its power is indeed without limits.

    Taxing a citizen for simply paying cash for their own medical care (or using none at all), or taxing an employer for NOT providing insurance as an employee benefit is INSANE. Complaining about national obesity while DROPPING height/weight ratio as a factor allowed for setting medical care insurance premium rates is also insane. Basing medical care premiums on a percentage of income is also NOT 'equal' treatment under the law.

    There is no limit to the "nice" things that a gov't can do, but what federal power, granted by the constitution, has suddenly allowed "PRIVATE" medical care insurance to become a public responsibility and a new federal power? It fail to see why, if UHC was desired that it was not passed directly into law (medicaid for all, with a % of income as the fee), rather than using a massive income redistribution SCAM to do so indirectly and incrementally.
    How come they aren't forcing people to eat broccoli in Mass. where a similar mandate has been in place for years? Your chicken little, sky is falling routine is ridiculous. You know full well why single payer was not passed....too much headwind. Republicans are to "blame" for the current bill, most everything in it was their idea. Be careful what you wish for.

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    If you don't obey the law you could pay a penalty. That's not a tax, even if the authority to levy the penalty arises out of the taxing power. This Republican talking point has already outlived its shelf life.
    its a penalty collected as a tax, for purposes of efficiency & convenience.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Thats not accurate. It is not a matter of wanting or not wanting to take care of the sick, but whether or not it is the role of the federal government to mandate that care be given and who is to pay for it. No one is stopping you, for example, from paying your neighbors medical bills if they bother you so much. The objection is that you have no right to compel me to pay them.
    It is absolutely accurate.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You don't understand; it's not that we CAN'T take care of our sick. It's that, "Christian nation" that we are, we don't WANT to take care of our sick. Or at least so says that segment of our population that's so vocal about its Christian values.
    This opinion I totally agree with. "Christian" Americans seem so selfish and unconcerned about the well-being of their community. All they want is to live in the big mansion and attend their privileged church on Sundays. What about the broader CHURCH of Christ? Including the disbelievers.

    I have spent the past 4 days trying to hitchhike up the road to stores. I have gotten 3 rides out of 10+ trips, one of which I asked for before sticking my thumb out. Another guy who helped is from Peru. Only one Caucasian American helped me out. That is a hit rate of 1 in 200+. Most people drive by are absorbed in their own world and unwilling to help another poor soul out. So much for the heart of America...it will bleed in the future.

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Dishonesty due to political motivations. The american people are much more receptive to the term "fee" than "tax." Even though it's quite obvious at this stage that is in fact a tax not a fee.
    10-4 on that. Shouldn't we as Americans be utterly pissed off that we are being lied to openly?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    its a penalty collected as a tax, for purposes of efficiency & convenience.
    No, no....you don't get to do this honestly Thunder. The SCOTUS upheld the law on the grounds that the mandate is a tax period.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The World Health Organization ranks Morocco 29th and us 37th for quality of care.

    World Health Organization ranking of health systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    There is no way you are going to convince me that places like Greece, Morocco, and Columbia have better doctors, better hospitals, better equipment, better results than the US. That is simply not true. The US is the leader in all of those catagories . What we have here is a cost problem, not a care problem. No one in their right mind is going to choose a hospital in Morocco over the Cleveland Clinic.

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