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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    The SC decision, while placing a limit around the already over-expansive interpretation of the commerce clause, has simply made the taxing power of the federal government unlimited. The good part is that to reign in this taxing power of the state, people need only elect politicians who will limit that power. So dems can run and hide from the tax label on Obamacare all they want, but defunding Obamacare can be done by rescinding the tax penalty for non compliance. But you are right. Obama said over and over that this wasnt a tax and the SC found that it was. All the cherry picking and word games in the world wont change that. Trying to squirm their way out of this only makes dems look foolish.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    You missed my point entirely. Taxing what IS done is FAR different than taxing what was NOT done. This is the CLEAR difference of this PPACA law, whether applied to either commerce or taxation. If the federal gov't can now mandate what you SPEND your money on, then its power is indeed without limits. Taxing a citizen for simply paying cash for their own medical care (or using none at all), or taxing an employer for NOT providing insurance as an employee benefit is INSANE. Complaining about national obesity while DROPPING hieght/weight as a factor allowed for setting medical care insurance premium rates is also insane. Basing medical care premiums on a percentage of income is also NOT 'equal' treatment under the law. There is no limit to the "nice" things that a gov't can do, but what federal power, granted by the constitution, has suddenly allowed "PRIVATE" medical care insurance to become a public responsibility and a new federal power? It fail to see why, if UHC is desired that it was not passed directly into law, rather than using a massive SCAM to do so indirectly and icrementally.
    Without limits? We live in a democracy. The power of the government is limited by elections. There are some areas where we can write down a clear cut rule saying A is acceptable, but B is not, and that will stand the test of time and we don't even need to vote on it. For example, we know that government should not deny the vote to black people or prevent people from speaking freely or whatever. But most areas there is no clear cut simple rule that we can impose to separate good policy from bad policy. We can't say what wars ought to be fought and what ones ought not be fought in a simple phrase. We can't make a simple rule that will tell us when we should invest in scientific research and when we should not. For those kinds of things, we need to use democracy. Taxation and the regulation of corporations and whatnot are in that bucket.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    and why would I be paying any more taxes?

    which if my taxes will go up?

    my FIT? my FICA?

    The law is some 2,700 pages, with 21 new taxes in it so far uncovered. If you don't think your taxes are going up to pay for this monstrosity, then you are fooling yourself.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    A truck is a kind of car. The dealer did not say it was NOT a truck.

    A tax is not a kind of penalty and Obama said it was NOT a tax. Now it is. Smoke up the bunghole.
    LOL. Ok then, the dealer says "no, this SUV is a car, not a truck", but then the DMV says to check the "truck" box. Is the dealer a liar?

    Seriously, this is just too stupid. Sit down and think for a second before you reply.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    So you are claiming to believe that because they argued that it was authorized under the taxing power that saying it isn't a tax is "a lie"? I mean, seriously, are you not seeing where you're getting mixed up? Its so stupid that I'm having trouble even explaining it clearly... It's like, say that I buy an SUV. The dealer calls it a "car", but when I go to pay my taxes, they tell me to check off the box for "truck". The dealer was a LIAR!!!11111one
    Wow, so you have to go to a distorted analogy to try to escape the facts. No analogy necessary, it is what it is. They claimed it as a tax in testimony before the court. Called it a tax. In public, the POTUS says it's not a tax. That may not qualify as a lie in your book, but I suspect it doesn't only because you are on the side of ther liar.

    Had it been Romney floating this turd, you'd be all over it.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Er, that's what I'm asking. How does Morocco do so much better than us at keeping the costs of doctors, hospitals, and all other aspects of medical care, so much more affordable while still providing care that is on par with the US for quality?
    Do you have some evidence that Moroccan health care is "on par" with the quality level of Us health care?

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The law is some 2,700 pages, with 21 new taxes in it so far uncovered. If you don't think your taxes are going up to pay for this monstrosity, then you are fooling yourself.
    which of my taxes will be going up?

    income tax? SS? Medicaid?

    state income taxes? local income taxes? local sales tax?

    please, tell me.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The notion that the US is such an impoverished nation that we need to save money by just letting poor people die in the streets for want of medical care, while countries like Morocco have been providing everybody with medical care for more than 30 years now, is just bizarre.
    You don't understand; it's not that we CAN'T take care of our sick. It's that, "Christian nation" that we are, we don't WANT to take care of our sick. Or at least so says that segment of our population that's so vocal about its Christian values.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Wow, so you have to go to a distorted analogy to try to escape the facts. No analogy necessary, it is what it is. They claimed it as a tax in testimony before the court. Called it a tax. In public, the POTUS says it's not a tax. That may not qualify as a lie in your book, but I suspect it doesn't only because you are on the side of ther liar.

    Had it been Romney floating this turd, you'd be all over it.
    I think the analogy would be easier for you to get your head around because it's every day experience. Why would you not consider the dealer that told you it was a car, not a truck, a liar?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Er, that's what I'm asking. How does Morocco do so much better than us at keeping the costs of doctors, hospitals, and all other aspects of medical care, so much more affordable while still providing care that is on par with the US for quality?
    Morroco is "on par" with the U.S. for medical care "quality"? Link please...
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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