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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

  1. #451
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    You're repeating the same old debunked point. Obama's team ARGUED it was a tax at the SCOTUS all while he was telling the people it wasn't a tax. I showed that some time back in this thread with transcripts from the court. So yes, that makes him a liar. Seriously.

    THIS IS NOT A FLIP FLOP OR A LIE. He just evolved on the issue!

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    this isn't a tax-increase on the Middle-class.

    I am lower Middle-class, and my taxes aren't going up in 2014.

    therefore, I am not facing a tax-increase.

    only in a backwards convoluted way, could someone see this as a tax hike on the middle-class.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386]

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Check the cost of doctors and hospitals, even you might find a clue.
    Er, that's what I'm asking. How does Morocco do so much better than us at keeping the costs of doctors, hospitals, and all other aspects of medical care, so much more affordable while still providing care that is on par with the US for quality?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  4. #454
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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    It's a new tax that can be potentially levied on members of any class.
    Last edited by a351; 07-01-12 at 12:25 PM.

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    this isn't a tax-increase on the Middle-class.

    I am lower Middle-class, and my taxes aren't going up in 2014.

    therefore, I am not facing a tax-increase.

    only in a backwards convoluted way, could someone see this as a tax hike on the middle-class.

    I don't think that is a fair statement Thunder. Your taxes may not go up in 2014, but the CBO says that by 2016 the average family could be paying as much as $2,400 additional tax, due to the mandate.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    It's a new tax that can be potentially levied on members of any class. It's a sin tax for all intensive purposes.
    Absolutely. So, if this is clear, why wasn't it sold to the American public that way?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Of course, if we the people and our representatives want to do that, the constitution doesn't stop it. In fact, we already do- we tax gas.
    You missed my point entirely. Taxing what IS done is FAR different than taxing what was NOT done. This is the CLEAR difference of this PPACA law, whether applied to either commerce or taxation. If the federal gov't can now mandate what you SPEND your money on, then its power is indeed without limits.

    Taxing a citizen for simply paying cash for their own medical care (or using none at all), or taxing an employer for NOT providing insurance as an employee benefit is INSANE. Complaining about national obesity while DROPPING height/weight ratio as a factor allowed for setting medical care insurance premium rates is also insane. Basing medical care premiums on a percentage of income is also NOT 'equal' treatment under the law.

    There is no limit to the "nice" things that a gov't can do, but what federal power, granted by the constitution, has suddenly allowed "PRIVATE" medical care insurance to become a public responsibility and a new federal power? It fail to see why, if UHC was desired that it was not passed directly into law (medicaid for all, with a % of income as the fee), rather than using a massive income redistribution SCAM to do so indirectly and incrementally.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-01-12 at 12:28 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    You're repeating the same old debunked point. Obama's team ARGUED it was a tax at the SCOTUS all while he was telling the people it wasn't a tax. I showed that some time back in this thread with transcripts from the court. So yes, that makes him a liar. Seriously.
    So you are claiming to believe that because they argued that it was authorized under the taxing power that saying it isn't a tax is "a lie"? I mean, seriously, are you not seeing where you're getting mixed up? Its so stupid that I'm having trouble even explaining it clearly... It's like, say that I buy an SUV. The dealer calls it a "car", but when I go to pay my taxes, they tell me to check off the box for "truck". The dealer was a LIAR!!!11111one
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I don't think that is a fair statement Thunder. Your taxes may not go up in 2014, but the CBO says that by 2016 the average family could be paying as much as $2,400 additional tax, due to the mandate.
    and why would I be paying any more taxes?

    which if my taxes will go up?

    my FIT? my FICA?

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    Re: Health care mandate is tax, will negatively affect middle, lower class, some say

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Absolutely. So, if this is clear, why wasn't it sold to the American public that way?
    Dishonesty due to political motivations. The american people are much more receptive to the term "fee" than "tax." Even though it's quite obvious at this stage that is in fact a tax not a fee.

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