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SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

TurtleDude said:
perhaps only because so many people are ignorant of the tenth amendment
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No, that's not the reason. Because Romney isn't JUST (two facedly) saying that it should be left to the states; he's also saying that the federal program, which is functionally almost identical to his, is a **** program on its merits. And he can't say a word about it without calling himself a dumbass.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

AdamT said:
No, that's not the reason. Because Romney isn't JUST (two facedly) saying that it should be left to the states; he's also saying that the federal program, which is functionally almost identical to his, is a **** program on its merits. And he can't say a word about it without calling himself a dumbass.
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LOL thanks for the Paid Obama hackery on that. big difference between what a government of limited jurisdiction can and should do versus a state
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Dickieboy said:
You sir, have misjudged me. I harbor no anger over this. But to be sure many on ‘my side’ are angry, unjustly I believe. The PPACA was American politics at its zenith, no more no less. As to Romney my preference was Huntsman but I will choose Romney over Obama essentially due to his executive experience. I have and always will think governors make better presidents than legislators…but that’s my opinion.
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Fair enough. No offense meant to you personally.

Obama has four years of experience as the president of the United States. No governorship can remotely compare with that.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

TurtleDude said:
LOL thanks for the Paid Obama hackery on that. big difference between what a government of limited jurisdiction can and should do versus a state
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Thanks for another reasoning-free response. If the policy is unsound it's unsound at the state and federal level. If the mandate is a tax it's a tax at the state and federal level. Romney isn't just saying that the feds shouldn't do it; he's saying that his singular achievement as governor was stupid policy.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

teamosil said:
Fair enough. No offense meant to you personally.
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None taken and I’m sure you would rather me not stereotype you likewise with many on ‘the left’.

Obama has four years of experience as the president of the United States. No governorship can remotely compare with that.
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True enough but I don’t feel three years equates to ~30 in the public/private sector. What does bother me about the President is his failure to find some way to ‘lead’. It is often espoused that those on the right (especially the TPers) will absolutely not yield but a good leader finds a way to make it happen. Reagan and O’Neil did, Clinton and Gingrich did (and I can think of no greater obnoxiously abstentious ‘righie’). Why can’t this President do it? I consider it his job. I believe there was little executive ‘experience’ attained in the first two years as his party held congress and no compromise was necessary.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Dickieboy said:
True enough but I don’t feel three years equates to ~30 in the public/private sector.
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I actually think private sector experience isn't very useful. It's kind of like me saying I think I'd be a really good violin player because I spent years programming computers. I half agree about governor experience being better than legislator experience, but Romney has 4 years as governor, Obama has 4 as president, so president is clearly the more valuable experience. Historically, second term presidents have radically outperformed first term ones (including their own first terms). So, we're left weighing years of corporate raiding against being a senator and a lawyer and a professor. Lets say that's a wash (which I think is being generous to Romney). What we're left with is just presidential experience vs gubernatorial experience.

Dickieboy said:
What does bother me about the President is his failure to find some way to ‘lead’. It is often espoused that those on the right (especially the TPers) will absolutely not yield but a good leader finds a way to make it happen. Reagan and O’Neil did, Clinton and Gingrich did (and I can think of no greater obnoxiously abstentious ‘righie’). Why can’t this President do it? I consider it his job. I believe there was little executive ‘experience’ attained in the first two years as his party held congress and no compromise was necessary.
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So you're voting against Obama because the tea party refuse to compromise? They explicitly declared that they intended to block everythign they could to make Obama look bad. You're willingly letting that work on you? Doesn't that just give both parties an incentive to refuse to compromise on anything if people vote against the opposite side when they do?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

teamosil said:
I actually think private sector experience isn't very useful. It's kind of like me saying I think I'd be a really good violin player because I spent years programming computers. I half agree about governor experience being better than legislator experience, but Romney has 4 years as governor, Obama has 4 as president, so president is clearly the more valuable experience. Historically, second term presidents have radically outperformed first term ones (including their own first terms). So, we're left weighing years of corporate raiding against being a senator and a lawyer and a professor. Lets say that's a wash (which I think is being generous to Romney). What we're left with is just presidential experience vs gubernatorial experience.



So you're voting against Obama because the tea party refuse to compromise? They explicitly declared that they intended to block everythign they could to make Obama look bad. You're willingly letting that work on you? Doesn't that just give both parties an incentive to refuse to compromise on anything if people vote against the opposite side when they do?
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So youre saying that a guy with decades in the private sector, a turn around of a multibillion dollar enterprise in the Olympic games, having to turn around a gigantic deficit in Mass., knows how the private sector works inside and out is only on par with Obama? Sorry that doesnt wash. Obama's inexperience in the private sector shows in how he approaches problems and how he looks for solutions, he believes the government is the solution every time. Thats why he needs to go.

Get the memo Teamo, its not corporate raiding its equity investment----even Dems are saying so. Btw, what happens when equity investors dont invest in failing companies? Oh thats right...EVERYONE gets unemployed.

Last, there are more than a few bills from the House sitting on Harry Reid's desk, I think the obstruction is on Dems, not the GOP.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

teamosil said:
So you're voting against Obama because the tea party refuse to compromise? They explicitly declared that they intended to block everythign they could to make Obama look bad. You're willingly letting that work on you? Doesn't that just give both parties an incentive to refuse to compromise on anything if people vote against the opposite side when they do?
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No but this thread is not the place to discuss why I am voting against President Obama. As to the 'block everything' it is common for the minority party to exhibit this, nothing new. Same as the 'one term president' comment. I mean really is it so appalling to think that whichever party is NOT in power has a goal to get back IN POWER?

Work on me? No, again I believe a leader’s job is to lead. A good one finds a way to build bridges rather than blame. Accepting ‘they intend on blocking everything’ is a cop out and not leadership.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Dickieboy said:
No but this thread is not the place to discuss why I am voting against President Obama. As to the 'block everything' it is common for the minority party to exhibit this, nothing new. Same as the 'one term president' comment. I mean really is it so appalling to think that whichever party is NOT in power has a goal to get back IN POWER?

Work on me? No, again I believe a leader’s job is to lead. A good one finds a way to build bridges rather than blame. Accepting ‘they intend on blocking everything’ is a cop out and not leadership.
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You are just refusing to acknowledge reality. There is nothing common about the obstructionism exhibited by the Republicans in Congress. Republicans in the Senate have shattered previous records for filibusters. It is the kiss of death for a Republican legislator to be labeled as someone who might, on occasion, work with Democrats to get something done. Just ask Dick Lugar. Remember what his Tea Party opponent had to say? ⁠”I certainly think bipartisanship ought to consist of Democrats coming to the Republican point of view."
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

OpportunityCost said:
So youre saying that a guy with decades in the private sector, a turn around of a multibillion dollar enterprise in the Olympic games, having to turn around a gigantic deficit in Mass., knows how the private sector works inside and out is only on par with Obama? Sorry that doesnt wash. Obama's inexperience in the private sector shows in how he approaches problems and how he looks for solutions, he believes the government is the solution every time. Thats why he needs to go.

Get the memo Teamo, its not corporate raiding its equity investment----even Dems are saying so. Btw, what happens when equity investors dont invest in failing companies? Oh thats right...EVERYONE gets unemployed.

Last, there are more than a few bills from the House sitting on Harry Reid's desk, I think the obstruction is on Dems, not the GOP.
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There's nothing on Reids desk but partisan trash from the House, the T's have made Congress a joke.

What do you think Romney's going to do to the economy that he learned from the Olympics? You think the Ryan Budget will turn the economy around? It will allright... right back into recession.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

teamosil said:
I actually think private sector experience isn't very useful. It's kind of like me saying I think I'd be a really good violin player because I spent years programming computers. I half agree about governor experience being better than legislator experience, but Romney has 4 years as governor, Obama has 4 as president, so president is clearly the more valuable experience.
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I think dealing with a financial implosion , job loss implosion and a couple of wars to boot like recently happened is a monumentious task that goes far and beyond the call of duty.

Historically, second term presidents have radically outperformed first term ones (including their own first terms).
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Ya got a link on that data?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

AdamT said:
You are just refusing to acknowledge reality.
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Why did you feel the need to go personal?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

OpportunityCost said:
So youre saying that a guy with decades in the private sector, a turn around of a multibillion dollar enterprise in the Olympic games, having to turn around a gigantic deficit in Mass., knows how the private sector works inside and out is only on par with Obama?
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No, I am saying that Obama has dramatically more relevant experience for the job. Being president for 4 years easily outweighs all the experience Romney has.

But, even if we ignore his experience as president and Romney's experience as governor, Obama still beats Romney IMO. Being a law professor, for example, is far, far, harder, more relevant, work than chopping up companies and parting them out for profit. On top of that, he was a state senator and a US senator.

But, with the presidential experience in the equation, it isn't really even close.

OpportunityCost said:
Get the memo Teamo, its not corporate raiding its equity investment
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What do you see as the difference between the two other than one sounds nice and the other doesn't? Equity investor is a broader category. It includes both hostile and friendly investment. Bain mostly did hostile takeovers. It includes both investment firms that seek to build up the company they invest in long term, and firms that seek to part out or slash and flip companies they buy. Bain was the later. What about what they do is it that you think doesn't fit in the "corporate raider" heading?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Dickieboy said:
No but this thread is not the place to discuss why I am voting against President Obama. As to the 'block everything' it is common for the minority party to exhibit this, nothing new. Same as the 'one term president' comment. I mean really is it so appalling to think that whichever party is NOT in power has a goal to get back IN POWER?

Work on me? No, again I believe a leader’s job is to lead. A good one finds a way to build bridges rather than blame. Accepting ‘they intend on blocking everything’ is a cop out and not leadership.
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Well, so you are saying that yes, that tactic does work on you. If one party refuses to compromise, you will blame the other party. No?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Dickieboy said:
Why did you feel the need to go personal?
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There's nothing personal about it. Why so butthurt?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

teamosil said:
Well, so you are saying that yes, that tactic does work on you. If one party refuses to compromise, you will blame the other party. No?
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No, I blame both. Is it acceptable for the LEADER to just throw his hand up and run in the house crying 'they won't play with me'? Leaders LEAD!
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

AdamT said:
There's nothing personal about it. Why so butthurt?
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No butthurt...just trying to maintain civility...
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Dickieboy said:
No, I blame both. Is it acceptable for the LEADER to just throw his hand up and run in the house crying 'they won't play with me'? Leaders LEAD!
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You can't lead someone who's primary goal is to not follow. What he has done is attempt to accomplish as much as he can using the power of the presidency. And of course for that he is accused of being a dictator. :roll:
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Dickieboy said:
No, I blame both. Is it acceptable for the LEADER to just throw his hand up and run in the house crying 'they won't play with me'? Leaders LEAD!
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He is, despite their obstruction. He got two supreme court justices on the court, he got healthcare reform passed, he got the payroll tax break through, he stood them down when they threatened to default, etc. What you're responding to isn't so much that he isn't leading, it is that they aren't following. And, especially when they openly declare that they're not going to follow no matter what because they want to undermine the president, you can't blame him for that.

I mean, three times now they have filibustered a judicial nominee for more than a year who they ultimately unanimously confirmed. One of the three was previously Sarah Palin's pick for the Alaska Supreme Court. That is out of many dozens that they filibustered, those are just the most egregious ones. They basically just set the dial on "filibuster all" and went home for the session.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

OpportunityCost said:
So youre saying that a guy with decades in the private sector, a turn around of a multibillion dollar enterprise in the Olympic games, having to turn around a gigantic deficit in Mass., knows how the private sector works inside and out is only on par with Obama? Sorry that doesnt wash. Obama's inexperience in the private sector shows in how he approaches problems and how he looks for solutions, he believes the government is the solution every time. Thats why he needs to go.

Get the memo Teamo, its not corporate raiding its equity investment----even Dems are saying so. Btw, what happens when equity investors dont invest in failing companies? Oh thats right...EVERYONE gets unemployed.

Last, there are more than a few bills from the House sitting on Harry Reid's desk, I think the obstruction is on Dems, not the GOP.
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The last president we had with "with decades in the private sector "experience was Herbert Hoover and that didn't work work out all that well.:2wave:
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

teamosil said:
Fair enough. No offense meant to you personally.

Obama has four years of experience as the president of the United States. No governorship can remotely compare with that.
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Now that I agree with.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Boo Radley said:
Now that I agree with.
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Now that its a democrat in office you do. In 2004, not so much, Im betting.

Im skeptical of the idea that an incumbent president has more relevant experience than anyone else. Its a self serving type of edict, one that is being employed as a shield for the gigantic lack of executive experience that Obama had before he became President. Agreed yes, he has experience now, no I do not agree that experience trumps anything else. The man has no clue how the private sector works and his insular inner circle doesnt have much private sector experience either, nor does his cabinet. Its telling that he thought previously the private sector was "fine".
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

OpportunityCost said:
Now that its a democrat in office you do. In 2004, not so much, Im betting.

Im skeptical of the idea that an incumbent president has more relevant experience than anyone else. Its a self serving type of edict, one that is being employed as a shield for the gigantic lack of executive experience that Obama had before he became President. Agreed yes, he has experience now, no I do not agree that experience trumps anything else. The man has no clue how the private sector works and his insular inner circle doesnt have much private sector experience either, nor does his cabinet. Its telling that he thought previously the private sector was "fine".
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No, I did. But that doesn't excuse all behavior. Bush lost his mind and invaded Iraq. Before that, there was a time I thought he had handled the intitial crisis well. But, he did lose his mind. And got worse as he went. That performance issue doesn't go away.

And Romney's experience is troubling. He outsources well and cuts workers well. Not sure that is the experience we need. Just as democrats needed to do with Bush (and failed to do), you have to present someone better. Not sure your weak field did that.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

kind of ironic that most of the people on this board are more concerned about the horse race, than the actual effectiveness of the policy. But this is why this country is going to ****, because of morons like you

but, yeah, I know, it's the other side's fault....
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

teamosil said:
Fair enough. No offense meant to you personally.

Obama has four years of experience as the president of the United States. No governorship can remotely compare with that.
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You must be a Dem political operative if you believe that 4 years of On The Job Training is enough to hold the office of POTUS. President Obama hasn't the cabapilities or skills to handle the job and it shows.
 
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