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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

  1. #261
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    In my state of Michigan, one cannot obtain a drivers license without a automobile insurance policy in effect. Do you know of any states where this is NOT the case that you have insurance or proof of financial responsibility?
    I got my license without having to have proof of insurance. See, people can have a license without having a car. Not to mention even if you have a license it does not mean that you will only drive your insured car and not some budies car that isnt' insured.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Ok, if that's how you want to shut down a discussion, fine, but then let's stop playing pretend about "individual responsibility" when what you're really referring to is government taking the responsibility and imposing its will on the individual.
    it might shock you but I would agree that there might be some long term merit in a society where we tell somebody "sorry but you screwed up and we will not treat you... we will not feed you... we will not house you... or we will not do anything for you. You want to be stupid and take a chance of death? So die already."

    However, that is NOT the society we live in. That has already been decided and this health care decision changes nothing in that regard even if Roberts had flipped to the other side.

    So its irrelevant to the current discussion.
    Last edited by haymarket; 06-30-12 at 04:20 PM.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    LOL! Yes, it certainly is comforting to know these agents will provide us with the health care we deserve.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Here's a history question for everyone:

    Did the Supreme Court decision in Dredd Scott end debate on a societal level about slavery or did it set the stage for the Civil War?

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I got my license without having to have proof of insurance. See, people can have a license without having a car. Not to mention even if you have a license it does not mean that you will only drive your insured car and not some budies car that isnt' insured.
    You dodged my question. Again:

    In my state of Michigan, one cannot obtain a drivers license without a automobile insurance policy in effect. Do you know of any states where this is NOT the case that you have insurance or proof of financial responsibility?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    The foolishness is calling it "responsibility" when something is imposed on me against my will. There's no "responsibility" in that. I am just the subject of an external force imposing its will upon me. In this case, the government is assuming responsibility for my own health risk management and leaving me without any real decision to make. If I refuse to buy insurance, my consequence should be that I don't receive medical treatment unless I'm prepared to pay cash for it. It should be my responsibility to assess that choice and accept the benefits or consequences.
    We live in a civilized nation that cares for our sick and injured because it is the right thing to do. The mandate simply says that everybody has a responsibility to prepare for the possibility of needing that care, whether it is by paying the "tax" or purchasing insurance. You can avoid all this by simply committing suicide as that is the only way you can be sure not to need medical help in the future. And sorry, if you have a accident we are not going to leave your mangled body by the side of the road because YOU wanted it that way. It's inhuman.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 06-30-12 at 04:26 PM.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    it might shock you but I would agree that there might be some long term merit in a society where we tell somebody "sorry but you screwed up and we will not treat you... we will not feed you... we will not house you... or we will not do anything for you. You want to be stupid and take a chance of death? So die already."

    However, that is NOT the society we live in. That has already been decided and this health care decision changes nothing in that regard even if Roberts had flipped to the other side.

    So its irrelevant to the current discussion.
    The manner in which, and how much, we support is very much still debatable.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Beyond debate?? Nothing in a free society is beyond debate. Funny how your hypocrisy on the matter doesn't let you put beyond debate decisions society has made like the definition of marriage. The truth is, you want debate to end on this issues where you agree with societies conclusions and want debate to continue unabated on those societal decisions you disagree with. Pathetic perspective on your part, but that is not surprising.
    So knock yourself out and start debating 24/7/365. Then come back here in ten years and report on your progress to turn America into a society where we will allow people to die or starve or freeze to death because they were lazy or stupid or irresponsible or just made bad choices.

    go for it.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The manner in which, and how much, we support is very much still debatable.
    We debate about the margins and details - not about the basic decision at the core.

    As a society, we argue about the number of angels dancing on the pin - not about IF there are angels dancing on the pin.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    it might shock you but I would agree that there might be some long term merit in a society where we tell somebody "sorry but you screwed up and we will not treat you... we will not feed you... we will not house you... or we will not do anything for you. You want to be stupid and take a chance of death? So die already."
    I like the drama sprinkled in at the end there. Appeals to pity always really get me.

    However, that is NOT the society we live in. That has already been decided and this health care decision changes nothing in that regard even if Roberts had flipped to the other side.

    So its irrelevant to the current discussion.
    I repeat: if you're going to shut down and just declare "not in THIS society!!" that's fine. I expect that level of engagement from you when cornered on the issue of responsibility. I'm just pointing out that the responsibility lies in the entity that decides. In this case, that I need to buy health insurance. If that is MY decision, based on MY assessment, then it's MY responsibility. If government is deciding I need to buy insurance, and implementing measures that force me to do so, then the responsibility for that decision is assumed by the government, and I'm just the unthinking citizen that complies. I don't have any responsibility to decide whether health insurance is necessary. It's been made for me. All I have to do is... whatever I'm told.

    Again, the decision-maker is the entity with the responsibility. So it takes massive spin to suggest that paying a penalty or else buying insurance as is federally mandated of me is an example of me "taking responsibility."
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 06-30-12 at 04:27 PM.

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