Page 24 of 122 FirstFirst ... 1422232425263474 ... LastLast
Results 231 to 240 of 1220

Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

  1. #231
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:06 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,698

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    People like me, who are self-employed, have plans we put together and like. We lose. They'll force us to the exchanges, our insurance are considered "cadillac policies". Here's the link again that describes all this.
    Does the phrase "the greatest good for the greatest number" mean anything to you?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  2. #232
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 03:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,272

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Citizens who drive a motor vehicle - and that would be the vast majority of Americans are forced to purchase insurance for that vehicle. This is nothing radical or revolutionary. It is well established.
    How many time have we been through this incredibly, and thoroughly wrong, and inane comparison? Each time we prove out the apples v. oranges of the statement to the same people, over, and over again, only to see it appear again by THE SAME PEOPLE!

    : Oh well, here is it again hay, please this time save it in a file or something so you can refer to it when you are tempted to use it in the future.



    The difference between health and auto insurance is so obvious that we often miss it. Auto insurance is, well, actually insurance, a protection against an unexpected but known risk. We don’t use our car insurance - or worse yet, government - to fill our gas tanks, change our oil or replace our windshield wipers. The health care fantasy world of avoiding “out-of-pocket” expenses simply means your money will be taken out of your tax pocket and your insurance premium pocket, and usually a lot more of it. Does anyone believe that oil changes will become cheaper if our government declares them to be a fundamental right and takes them over?

    What’s more, because you buy it yourself, your car insurance belongs to you. Your boss can’t take it away from you. You will never be stuck in a bad job because you’re afraid of losing your car insurance. And best of all, if your car insurance company fails to treat you right, you can simply fire them and hire someone else.

    As we envision a health care system in post-Obamacare America, surely we can agree that patients deserve to be treated at least as well as car owners. What follows are straightforward steps that make the patient, rather than government, the priority in health care. Additional details of these substantial but solvable problems can be found in my book, “First, Do No Harm” (Broadside e-books, 2011).

    Tax fairness: Under current law, individuals face unfair tax penalties for daring to purchase their own insurance. These laws coerce Americans into accepting employer-based policies, which often trap poor souls in bad jobs and even make some productive workers unemployable simply because they got sick. Tax fairness would level the playing field so families could choose for themselves how to purchase insurance.

    End state insurance monopolies:State governments have a long history of mandating that you purchase whatever services they declare you need - coincidentally provided by those who have the best lobbyists. Not only does this practice raise insurance premiums, it is responsible for a quarter of the uninsured in America. What’s more, these mandates create the artificial state boundaries that have the perverted effect of protecting insurance companies from competition in the other 49 states. End them, either by allowing states to do so voluntarily or by employing the power of the Constitution’s Commerce Clause, if necessary.

    End state licensing monopolies: Physicians, like insurance companies, are also the beneficiaries of artificial state boundaries that protect them from competition from each other. Our system should be centered around patients, not doctors. As with the state insurance monopolies, the licensing monopolies should be ended voluntarily, if possible, or using the Commerce Clause.

    Health savings accounts: HSAs and other consumer-directed health plans empower patients to be consumers and have been shown to save money without sacrificing health care outcomes. Our current third-party-payer health care system is like a grocery store without price tags, where customers fill their carts with “free” steaks whether they need them or not. Since patients are blind to prices, the government has only one way to reduce health care costs: provide less of it. This is accomplished with reduced reimbursements and outright rationing. HSAs, on the other hand, would turn 310 million Americans into an army of watchdogs who are incentivized to avoid unnecessary medical expenses but are still able to get the care they need.

    End frivolous lawsuits: It’s estimated that nearly $50 billion a year is wasted on “defensive” medicine that could otherwise be used to provide care for the needy. Furthermore, the sky-high malpractice insurance costs are unavoidably passed on to patients. If an obstetrician is charged $100,000 per year for malpractice insurance and she delivers 100 babies, you’re paying a $1,000 “lawsuit tax” to welcome your bundle of joy into the world. Limits on pain and suffering - but not actual damages - have been shown to reduce health care costs and improve access. For the most egregious cases, forcing losers to pay the winners’ court costs would end the lottery-ticket mentality of trial lawyers.

    WOLF: After Obamacare - Washington Times
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  3. #233
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,180

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Does the phrase "the greatest good for the greatest number" mean anything to you?
    I can (and do, occasionally) think of some fairly twisted and even illegal ways to do the greatest good for the greatest number.

  4. #234
    Sage
    clownboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    08-17-16 @ 10:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    26,087

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183]

    Quote Originally Posted by Feebie View Post
    Thank you to clownboy and to Newmalthusian for your replies. I was not in favor of this from the beginning. If it's only Constitutional as a tax, yet Obama is saying it's not a tax, isn't that kind of flying in the face of the ruling (by his own reaction in stating so firmly it's not a tax)? Also, I've read here and elsewhere the whole car insurance argument, and it's lame, very lame.
    Yeah, it's been discussed ad infinitum here. The car insurance argument has been thoroughly debunked, but that doesn't mean it won't reappear time after time. And yes, the POTUS lied, his admin even argued it was a tax before the court at the same time the POTUS was telling the public it wasn't a tax..

  5. #235
    User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Last Seen
    06-30-12 @ 10:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Haymarket, if I may, while it's true that you do NOT have to buy health insurance, why should you be punished financially for not doing so? Further, a car is not a necessity, it's only a perception fed by advertising, etc. I know people who don't own vehicles, by choice. They live their lives and I don't hear them complain.

  6. #236
    Sage
    mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    DC Metro
    Last Seen
    11-13-16 @ 12:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    22,499

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183]

    Quote Originally Posted by Feebie View Post
    Hello everyone! Brief lurker, first time poster.

    Question to all who care to answer: The SCOTUS says this is constitutional as a tax, correct? Obama, along with his administration, insists it is not a tax, correct? So, what now?
    Welcome o/

    It means Obama lied. The justification for that statement is as solid as the claim that Bush lied. More so, in my opinion.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  7. #237
    Sage
    clownboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    08-17-16 @ 10:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    26,087

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Does the phrase "the greatest good for the greatest number" mean anything to you?
    Does it mean anything to you? The greatest number of Americans don't believe Obamacare is the greatest good for them, yet you think serving 10% of the people in the US, while screwing the rest is for the greatest good?

  8. #238
    User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Last Seen
    06-30-12 @ 10:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183]

    Great, up to speed. Also, please just forego my car insurance comments. Late to the party on that portion.

  9. #239
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:06 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,698

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Feebie View Post
    Haymarket, if I may, while it's true that you do NOT have to buy health insurance, why should you be punished financially for not doing so? Further, a car is not a necessity, it's only a perception fed by advertising, etc. I know people who don't own vehicles, by choice. They live their lives and I don't hear them complain.
    While it may be possible in some areas of the land to NOT own a car - there are plenty of areas where that is not a reality.

    Why should people be fined for not buying health insurance? Were I writing the law- that would not be part of it. However, since it is I can only imagine it is there as in incentive to take responsibility for your life in that area and not simply let others totally assume the cost of your own irresponsibility.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #240
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:06 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,698

    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Does it mean anything to you? The greatest number of Americans don't believe Obamacare is the greatest good for them, yet you think serving 10% of the people in the US, while screwing the rest is for the greatest good?
    The Gallup poll shows lots of support for provisions of the law. Only 31% agree with the GOP position of repealing it.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

Page 24 of 122 FirstFirst ... 1422232425263474 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •