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Thread: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

  1. #151
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    The point being that the state can now tax you for not doing something they want you to do. Not sure why people would support that sort of thing.
    The federal government has done that since at least World War II. They've just called it a tax credit, tax deduction, or tax exclusion...and given it to people who comply. They've taxed us for not owning a home mortgage, they've taxed us for not getting health insurance through our employers, they've taxed us for not having kids, they've taxed us for not contributing to a retirement plan, they've taxed us for not owning fuel-efficient cars, etc. This is nothing new.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The Republican voters mostly are less educated whites. The Republican politicians are mostly elites. And obviously the platform is exclusively designed to serve the elites. It's bizarre.
    Inaccurate statement. Registered voters (Republican, Democrat, Independent) make up less than half of the US population. Polls on conservatives vs liberal population show that there are nearly twice as many people that identify as conservative over liberal in the US. So, to claim that Democrats are more educated than Republicans (assuming conservatives can loosely be described as Republicans vs liberals as democrats) is innaccurate. There are a lot more conservatives than liberals so it's likely there are just as many well educated Republicans, percentage wise.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Inaccurate statement. Registered voters (Republican, Democrat, Independent) make up less than half of the US population. Polls on conservatives vs liberal population show that there are nearly twice as many people that identify as conservative over liberal in the US. So, to claim that Democrats are more educated than Republicans (assuming conservatives can loosely be described as Republicans vs liberals as democrats) is innaccurate. There are a lot more conservatives than liberals so it's likely there are just as many well educated Republicans, percentage wise.
    Sorry, but it is accurate. Studies of registered voters show that Democrats are mostly minorities and college educated whites, while Republicans are mostly non-college-educated whites.

    graph-0.jpg
    Last edited by AdamT; 06-30-12 at 11:22 AM.
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  4. #154
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Inaccurate statement. Registered voters (Republican, Democrat, Independent) make up less than half of the US population. Polls on conservatives vs liberal population show that there are nearly twice as many people that identify as conservative over liberal in the US. So, to claim that Democrats are more educated than Republicans (assuming conservatives can loosely be described as Republicans vs liberals as democrats) is innaccurate. There are a lot more conservatives than liberals so it's likely there are just as many well educated Republicans, percentage wise.
    Its actually mixed results, at least in terms of voting (which is not the same as ideology, but its the best study I could find). In most demographics its essentially even, with college graduates being a minority.



    Percentage wise is percentage wise, I believe what you are trying to say is that there are more conservatives in absolute numbers based on percentages, which would be a more accurate statement.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Correct.



    Yup.
    You place no value on that element of the ideal of individual liberty called the right to private property. But the components of individual liberty are intertwined. Destroy one strand and you weaken the whole.



    So that's why you're purposely spreading lies and misinformation, and fomenting racism.
    You have to accept corrosive internal oppositon if you seek to transform my side out of existnece. I'm out to cause your side to fail. Sabotage is perfectly legitimate. Organizing politically based on separate identity groups is what the Democratic Party does. All sides lie by telling partial truths in order to arouse their bases.



    With the exception of those constitutional limitations I mentioned, that's a fair assessment of my position, yes.



    The Republican Party is the party of bitter old white dudes, and their wives. The Democratic Party is the party of everyone else.
    America's dominance of world affairs is at an end. There are many consequences that flow from that fact. One consequence is that America's share of international wealth will shrink on a relative basis as power and wealth flow from America to China and other non-western countries. That means America will no longer have the excess wealth necessary to buy social peace. It will be necessary for your side to take from one separate identity group in order to advance the interests of other identity groups. Your side can't escape this because you have adopted an economic model that is being destroyed by Han China and the rest of the world. Every non-elite group will be in direct competition with all of the others in a pure zero sum game.

    The American military will have to be gutted to make interest payments on an ever expanding national debt. Your side doesn't have enough money to pay its bills. Do you see the fiscal predicament the entitlement state is in when it no longer produces sufficient excess wealth to buy social peace?

    Who will be the primary victims of this scenario? It will be somebody, but not old white folks. And it won't be African Americans or Hispanics or Asian Americans. It will be poorly educated young white people. How do you think they will feel? Do you think they will be happy with their lack of education and downward mobility?

  6. #156
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    You place no value on that element of the ideal of individual liberty called the right to private property. But the components of individual liberty are intertwined. Destroy one strand and you weaken the whole.





    You have to accept corrosive internal oppositon if you seek to transform my side out of existnece. I'm out to cause your side to fail. Sabotage is perfectly legitimate. Organizing politically based on separate identity groups is what the Democratic Party does. All sides lie by telling partial truths in order to arouse their bases.



    With the exception of those constitutional limitations I mentioned, that's a fair assessment of my position, yes.





    America's dominance of world affairs is at an end. There are many consequences that flow from that fact. One consequence is that America's share of international wealth will shrink on a relative basis as power and wealth flow from America to China and other non-western countries. That means America will no longer have the excess wealth necessary to buy social peace. It will be necessary for your side to take from one separate identity group in order to advance the interests of other identity groups. Your side can't escape this because you have adopted an economic model that is being destroyed by Han China and the rest of the world. Every non-elite group will be in direct competition with all of the others in a pure zero sum game.

    The American military will have to be gutted to make interest payments on an ever expanding national debt. Your side doesn't have enough money to pay its bills. Do you see the fiscal predicament the entitlement state is in when it no longer produces sufficient excess wealth to buy social peace?

    Who will be the primary victims of this scenario? It will be somebody, but not old white folks. And it won't be African Americans or Hispanics or Asian Americans. It will be poorly educated young white people. How do you think they will feel? Do you think they will be happy with their lack of education and downward mobility?
    Like I said, you already admitted that you're purposely spreading lies and misinformation and encouraging racism. And if that weren't clear, you just admitted again in this post that you're "out to sabotage" rather than actually discuss the subject at hand. So save yourself the trouble of typing out long replies to my posts. You know full well that I'm right on the substance of this issue and you don't even believe what you're arguing, so what's the point? Why should I take you seriously?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-30-12 at 11:34 AM.
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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The Republican voters mostly are less educated whites. The Republican politicians are mostly elites. And obviously the platform is exclusively designed to serve the elites. It's bizarre.
    Furthermore, if you think Kennedys, Kerrys, Edwards, Bidens etc, etc are not elites....you need to get reacquainted with reality.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You could have been describing the late Thirties. What happened in 1941 to change all that?

    If there is a good reason to unite, Americans will unite. If people push them to disunity, if people encourage dissolution, if extremists stir the waters of discontent and push for things like secession and the falling apart of America, then that sort of self fulfilling prophecy is on them.
    A different America existed in 1941. It had social cohesion and assimilation to create a shared identity and consciousness. Assimilation is no longer operative. It has been replaced by identity politics which promote separation.

    Don't expect violence...look for paralysis which prevents America from acting. There is no reason for people on my side to cooperate with those who fully intend to transform us out of existence. This is an existential threat. Don't you think it's logical for people on my side to prefer a greatly weakened America that isn't able to transform us out of existence?

    What happens to beleagured minorities who are under constant hostile pressure from dominant majorities? What does history tell us? They make common cause with foreign powers in orderr to weaken the dominant majority. That's why the Roman general Boniface invited the Vandals into North Africa. That's why a Visigoth prince invited the Moors to introduce their wonderful cavalry into a Spanish civil war. That's why the Manchus collaborated with the Japanese during WWII against the Han Chinese.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Sorry, but it is accurate. Studies of registered voters show that Democrats are mostly minorities and college educated whites, while Republicans are mostly non-college-educated whites.

    graph-0.jpg
    That's not what that graphs shows. That graph shows how many Democrats have degrees.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Its actually mixed results, at least in terms of voting (which is not the same as ideology, but its the best study I could find). In most demographics its essentially even, with college graduates being a minority.



    Percentage wise is percentage wise, I believe what you are trying to say is that there are more conservatives in absolute numbers based on percentages, which would be a more accurate statement.
    Better said, thank you.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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